quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
So, is there anything at all considered excessive force? What if the patrons had dragged the body outside and hung it from a tree upside down, a la Benito Mussolini?

Shoved him into a wood chipper? Chopped him into small chunks and shot them out of a potato cannon? Carried him to the nearest zoo and tossed him over the fence into the bear exhibit? Tied him to the bumper of a car while yelling "ROAD TRIP!!"?

You know- in order to "neutralize the threat?

Dead is dead, there’s no possibility of applying excessive force after that. You can’t make a dead person any deader no matter how hard you try.

Before the point of death, if you’ve made the decision to shoot an aggressor to stop the threat, you’ve chosen to use deadly force against said aggressor. I don’t think it’s possible to use excessive deadly force. Deadly force is the end of the road. There’s no deadlier force or deadliest force or any other type of force beyond deadly force. If a guy walks into a restaurant points a gun at people and you get lucky in that he’s standing in front of a wood chipper, then yes by all means employ deadly force and shove him in. If you happen to knock the guy’s gun loose or knock him unconscious before he lands in the wood chipper, you shouldn’t keep pushing him in. At the point he’s no longer a threat, using deadly force against him would no longer be reasonable.


I’m fairly sure I wouldn’t do any of the things you’ve listed, nor shoot one more time in the head once the aggressor was no longer a threat. I’d also stick around for the police to show up.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

…until such time as EMT personnel show up and say "WHAT THE FUCK?? Would you stop shooting, please?"

< Thread drift >

The “everything altogether” scenario when I took the National EMT Paramedic exam was a shooting at a warehouse. It was described as:

“You roll up to a shooting reported by the police. There is a police car on site, but no officer. There is a flight of exterior stairs to a partly open door. In the open door lies a person. Go!”

I was astonished to learn I was the only candidate in my class of generally smart folks who asked “Where is the guy with the gun and is he still shooting?” before I did anything.

I must admit Para’s version would have been a better reply.

< Thread Drift >

Heard on the news last night (haven't seen a linkable source yet), the defender has a lawyer. The lawyer has contacted the police. I assume they're negotiating a police interview.

^^^
https://abc13.com/amp/el-ranch...lled-fatal/12676094/

The final shot? Easily explainable and a very harsh guess by the police that it's indicative of a depraved mind that the shooter needed/wanted to kill the perp.

If the shooter was nervous as fuck, and who wouldn't be, if he's on the trigger and is a pile of nerves and the shakes, his finger pressing the trigger may very well be a case of uncontrollable nerves.

Cops don't know that and the DA doesn't either.

That's not the necessary specific intent for murder. As far as anyone knows, the perp was already dead and just going through bleeding out or agonal breathing and decorticate posturing may have already started. T

So I googled the dead guy's name Eric Eugene Washington and this is what came up. Of course article didn't have anything to say about the robber's priors. Arrested for murder in a robbery in 2012. The right guy got shot this time.

UPDATE: Suspects Arrested, Charged in Fatal Shooting at 5307 Telephone Road March 01, 2012 - Charges have been filed against three suspects arrested in the fatal shooting of a man at 5307 Telephone about 4:40 p.m. on February 19. The suspects, Brandon Toderick Johnson (b/m, 8-9-89), Johntay Gibson (b/m, 9-20-94) and Eric Eugene Washington (b/m, 6-17-92), are charged with capital murder in the 230th State District Court. They are accused in the killing of Hamid Warrich, 62, who was transported to Memorial Hermann Hospital where he was pronounced dead. Photos of the suspects are not available at this time pending futher investigation....

Two unknown male suspects entered the Boost Mobile cell phone store at the above address and demanded money. During the robbery, Mr. Warrich, the store's owner, was shot. The suspects were described only as two unknown males wearing masks over their faces.

Well, it's being referred to a grand jury.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hou...-referred-grand-jury

As for the dead guy- son, damn, you made it to 30 and you still hadn't learned anything?

^^^^^^^^^^

Yes, he was question and released, no charges filed. And based on other defense shootings, it could be months before he sees a grand jury.

Florida has a SYG law for self defense, a SYG ruling is done separate of any criminal court issues, and if ruled a good SYG situation, no civil suits can be filed against the shooter.

Why did he leave, maybe when he found out the gun was a toy, panic and got out of there. Added bonus is he didn't have to give a statement, and will have legal representation before speaking.



Regarding the 9 times he shot, who knows when the threat ends, just read what Sheriff Grady Judy said to defend his deputies in Polk County FL after they killed a suspect who killed another deputy.

Face to face with an armed man suspected of killing a Polk County deputy sheriff, SWAT officers riddled his body with 68 bullets.

Altogether, nine officers fired 110 times Friday at Angilo Freeland, who Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said "executed" one of his deputies.

"That's all the bullets we had, or we would have shot him more," Judd said after autopsy results were released Saturday.

I feel it is too bad that he will have some legal expenses, tax money should be available to one who acts doing what the police would have done had they been there.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Well, it's being referred to a grand jury.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hou...-referred-grand-jury

Not an attorney, but my understanding from speaking with Texas defense attorneys is that in Texas every self-defense shooting that ends in death is referred to a grand jury.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And also what I read a while back, and heard from my LTC class instructor, is that those TX shooters who face a grand jury in their county, 70-80% of them are cleared, they are not indicted.

Referred to grand jury without charges. The guy will be fine.

The deceased appeared to have a long rap sheet:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...4a4395085e0dcecfcb7a

quote:

Originally posted by SigSAC:
The deceased appeared to have a long rap sheet:

Article linked refers to the Good Samaritan as a ”vigilante”

MSN might want to look up the definition of the words they use…

Actually, it was Daily Mail that put out that headline - MSN just used it on their feed.

New York Post said essentially the same thing without the "V" word.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news...408482d53d48d0e993fa

Vigilante whatever. Hey, I'd rather be vigilante than victim.

A skunk of the highest order has been eliminated. Keep shooting them, there is no bag limit.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Florida has a SYG law for self defense, a SYG ruling is done separate of any criminal court issues, and if ruled a good SYG situation, no civil suits can be filed against the shooter.
.[/i]

I don't think there is anything about this that would make it a SYG case, even if there was a requirement in TX (and there's not).


Hopefully a favorable ruling by the Grand jury will create a little more reluctance by the area felons to reconsider where they ply their trade.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Florida has a SYG law for self defense, a SYG ruling is done separate of any criminal court issues, and if ruled a good SYG situation, no civil suits can be filed against the shooter.
.[/i]

I don't think there is anything about this that would make it a SYG case, even if there was a requirement in TX (and there's not).


Hopefully a favorable ruling by the Grand jury will create a little more reluctance by the area felons to reconsider where they ply their trade.

Agree, was responding to Ensigmatics comments earlier post about SYG and what states have it, should have quoted.