If I had a child that committed murder or any serious crime I would definitely turn them in to the police the same way I would expect another parent to turn their kid in to the police if he/she murdered my loved one. You do your kid no good shielding them from the consequences of their actions and you put your own freedom in jeopardy if you try to help them avoid capture.

There is one thing thicker than blood for me. That is the cause of righteousness. I’ll support, encourage and counsel all the way until the law is broken. From there the consequences apply. From personal experience I can say rescuing a child from the consequences of his behavior will only lead to further, deeper trouble and sometimes even death. They break the law, they get turned in; even if it breaks my heart.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:

There is one thing thicker than blood for me. That is the cause of righteousness. I’ll support, encourage and counsel all the way until the law is broken.

I have read many (all that I have seen) of your previous posts, on various topics. I get the sense that you are a very moral, ethical, person, who will choose to Do The Right Thing.

This leads to a question: Do you believe (as I certainly do) that there are some laws that are immoral and un-just? How do you feel about breaking these laws?

I'm addition, as a Christian, there are laws I would break. Those are laws that contradict scripture. If our government passed a laws stating I cannot gather in public to practice my faith I'd disobey that and face the consequences. Same for my family. Right now those are very rare situations but may be more commonplace in the future the way our country is heading,

^^^ "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty". - Someone

Very little chance I'd call LE on my child. I'm sure we could war-game a situation where I would, but nothing immediately comes to mind. That's not to say I don't currently, haven't in the past, and will continue to teach respect for law and those involved in the creation and enforcement of it. Similar however, to what we (used to be) taught in basic training, and more advanced combat arms coursework...we have an obligation to a code of ethics, constitution, and brotherhood of fellow men/warriors. Unlawful orders are to be disobeyed. Where most of us differ is what our foundational set of "orders" or laws we consider to be lawful. Not all killing is wrong. Not all stealing is wrong. For that matter, not all bullying is wrong, either. Absolutes are seldom always correct, but a fallen world with a lefty point of view believes in the absolute twisting of law and order or rules and statutes for their own gain. Too many people today live in a world where the letter of the law is more important than the spirit or intent of the law.

I think the real question being asked here is if your child of consenting age (old enough to know better) commits a violation of our own standards of law and order, as in something we would turn others in and demand punishment for...would we turn in our child for others to bring punishment for the offenses we believe them to be guilty of? 99% of the time, my answer is still no.

In a previous time, that maybe never even existed, perhaps I might have trusted a system of prosecution and enforcement to deal fairly with my child. A system that would not lie or twist for personal gain against the truth of my child's crime. A system that would not over-penalize or otherwise commit atrocities to my child in the process. I don't believe there is a single place in our country where this still exists, again, if it ever did. I might have just been naive in the past and hadn't had my eyes opened yet. In some places, I wouldn't trust the local authority to get a parking ticket correct.

Too bad you are not in Wyoming,

They have a "special" train station up there

Both ends of the spectrum have been pretty well covered here.

I'm biased towards the "call the cops" end, but for misdemeanors like shop lifting, I would (and have...) drag them back by the ear and have them 'fess up and take whatever is coming to them.

Some people have flexible morality.

quote:

Originally posted by xd45man:
My philosophy has always been God, Family, Country. That being said, I am struggling in that I don't know the threshold at which I would turn in my child.

If you truly have that philosophy in life and live it, not just to have a nice saying, then you won't ever have to struggle with the concept of turning in your child.

1) Because you put God first and family second, then you would have raised your child that he will live the right way and you'll be able to support your child in everything he or she does.

2) In the event that your child objectively does go astray against a righteous law, since you put God first, then you also won't have any struggle. We have the example of Abraham when God asked him to give up his son, did so obediently because he trusted God will provide.

Guess I shouldn’t be typing this:

Years ago, y suffered a severe CVA. My oldest son, who was there when it happened, never informed me. Learned about this a month later when I was called to say goodbye to my sister on her dying bed. He was likely asked to keep his mouth shut. A dilemma.
Months later, my mother affected with age, sorrow and neglecting her health to take care of my sister, was ill and not all there. Very stubborn lady.
My oldest son and her mother conspired to kidnap her and sent her to a Clinic without informing me. They succeeded briefly but we caught up with them. They gad tried the day before but my mother, then lucid, chased them away.

I was very upset but decided against going to the police. My concern then was leaving my youngest son motherless if jail was involved.

Regret my decision. They deserved what was coming to them.

There are a thousand details tgat i have left out. Those were extremely hard times for us and my son decided ti rob us putting my mother’s life in extreme danger. Only luck prevented her heart failing her. Did not long after.

Those two are scum.

0-0

I have always taught my children there are consequences for their actions. If they did wrong what better lesson then to bring them back into the store at the age of five to answer to the store. I also parented with follow through I set limits told them what they were and they know there will be follow through. If they do something wrong there will be a corresponding consequence. If they lie about it the consequence was doubled. A teaching moment. I also lead by example I was speeding in Ohio going to NY for Christmas. My kids in the back seat I took the ticket did not badge the trooper. I don’t believe in it. You do the crime you do the time. I could go on but I am sure you get the point.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:

There is one thing thicker than blood for me. That is the cause of righteousness. I’ll support, encourage and counsel all the way until the law is broken.

I have read many (all that I have seen) of your previous posts, on various topics. I get the sense that you are a very moral, ethical, person, who will choose to Do The Right Thing.

This leads to a question: Do you believe (as I certainly do) that there are some laws that are immoral and un-just? How do you feel about breaking these laws?

I believe in the supreme law of the land, that being the constitution and bill of rights. Any law that runs contrary is immoral. However, prudence dictates that I taught my sons to follow those laws and work within the system for liberty. For my part, I won’t compel my sons with the threat of immoral law, unconstitutional law.

That may seem incongruent but makes sense to me. I’m convinced the author of liberty and the constitution unperverted is God Himself through inspired men flawed as they may have personally been.

It has to do with right and wrong and too many people do not have a sense of it.

If you want a sense of the mess we are in as a society, look at the moral decay of people who believe that wrong can be ok as long as it’s for the right reasons.

Stealing a pack of gum warrants a return to the store, a sincere apology, and a lesson hard learned about honesty.

Shielding an offspring after committing an actual criminal act gets you Hunter Biden, or an approximation thereof. You are left with a morally bankrupt son/daughter that now thinks they are permanently above such “reproach”. Food for thought.

I don't have kids. Having said that, if my child committed murder...real cold-blooded murder, i.e., not self defense...I would hire an attorney, the three of us would have a LENGTHY pow wow, then the three of us would march to the police station where I would stand by my child's side while he or she turned themselves in under the guise of the attorney.

There's no other way that this could go down...

If my child doesn't take responsibility for their actions, I feel I failed as a parent. If they hurt someone intentionally or unintentionally I would expect them to take responsibility or encourage them to take responsibility before I stepped in.
I can imagine situations where an unjust law was broken and i would cover for them or a corrupt system was against them and I would fight to the end for them. Sadly I can see possibilities of the later situation becoming more of a possibility now days.

My mother turned in her own child.

About 20ish years ago my sister was involved with a bad guy. That guy committed a felony, my sister being an accessory.

One morning on the 6am news there was a video clip of this guy committing said felony and the police were asking for help in identifying this guy.

My mother and I were watching TV that morning, different homes, different towns, and both said pretty much the same thing, "Holy shit!!! I know who that is!"

We were on the phone with each other less than 30 second later. Both of us then called into work and told them we would not be in that day. An hour or so later we were at the police station. A short time later we were giving the detective all of the info we had on this guy and my sister.

A couple of days later a contingent of officers surrounded their car at an intersection, dozens of firearms trained on this guy and my sister and arrested them both without further incident.

Many thousands of dollars of attorneys fees later and my sister was able to mostly get out of this mess and never committed another crime.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Some people have flexible morality.

Moral relativity is a real thing, and in the last few decades it has run rampant.

Gone are the days of absolute right and absolute wrong.

I once stole a candy bar from Buttrey’s Super Store. More than 50 years later, I still remember my father marching me back down there and making me give it back and apologize to the manager. And I vividly remember the ass beating I took afterwards.

What some here would do is pretty shocking to me.

quote:

I won’t try to look up the Latin terms, but there is a legal(?) principle that there are two types of unlawful acts: those that are evil or morally wrong in themselves, and those that are just prohibited.

Malum prohibitum, and malum in se, the first is wrong because we say it is, the second is wrong because it's obviously wrong, "evil in itself".

My question is always who is the victim, and how are they the victim? Theft, assault, murder, things of that nature have pretty clear victims, and how, usually. Less clear are things like the prohibited magazines, who's the victim? Oh, some grabber wine mommy has an aching chest pussy? That's not quite damage enough for me to give a shit.

People decry the lack of respect for laws, point to it as some moral failing. If the laws made sense, if they weren't just attempts to control political enemies, harass usually peaceable individuals, I'd be right there with you. But there's so many laws, so many that are just a "fuck you, do as I say", so many written and championed and passed by people who never grew out of that angry kindergartener who hated seeing the other kids playing "wrong", who carried that well into adulthood and now gleefully exercise political violence against anybody who doesn't step in line.

I've so far avoided murder, and assault, and theft, and all the other big ones, but I will routinely ignore prohibitions with no victims, doubly so if there's no chance of being caught. That's not me boasting or trying to sound like a badass, I've only got so many days on the planet, I can't spend them worrying about stupid bullshit dreamed up by dumb bitches in suits that cost more than my car.