quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
I have long felt and believed in the what I call the "pendulum theory." As we continue as a nation, the pendulum swings from extreme Left to extreme Right.

.. Snip...

and

quote:

Come on, do these people really want millions of individuals classified as criminals? Do they really want us to be thinking as such?

V.

All of this. It will swing back. Whether you call it pendulum theory, or overreach, whenever either left or right go to far, there is a correction. I expect that we will see one in Virginia. We may be seeing the start of one in California. Not with guns yet, but with homelessness, vagrancy, shit-in-the-streets, etc. When big corporate conventions pull out, when the donor class starts to revolt, when supposedly safe politicians get voted out of office by active constituents, things change.

The Dems got massacred after the 1996 AWB, and have forgotten the lesson. Hopefully, they will get hammered in VA in two years.

If they don't, we will delay these laws in the courts, we will nibble away at their majority, and we will refuse to comply. During this time, real crime, the kind that you are seeing rise in NYC, Baltimore, Chicago, Mogadishu-on-the-Mississippi, Richmond, etc., the kind that affects suburban soccer moms, so that they are more afraid of criminals than they are of guns, you will see a change, like we have had over the last 30 years, and things will swing back.

Gun rights have expanded exponentially over the last 30 years. In some places, we are now seeing a retrenchment based on low crime, media and democrat propaganda, lack of exposure and experience, and no appreciation for the role of guns in society.

Don't turn in your shit, don't panic, stay active, pressure your legislators, for God's sake go vote, convince those who can be convinced, and things will come back to us.

I take as my lead for this, the situation my daughter and her fiancee find themselves in with Massachusetts. They live within 45 minutes of Boston, but in a very gun friendly town. They got Class A carry permits in their 20's on their first application. When my daughter's wallet was stolen, the police department had her a new carry permit immediately, and handed it to her with a smile. Her very liberal, anti-gun friends who are also in their 20's have asked to go shooting, and are having honest, open conversations about guns, protection, and concealed carry.

One of those people came to visit her at my place when she was visiting me, and part of the reason for her coming over, was to shoot in my back yard. I started her on .22 LR, and 2 hours later she was shooting 9mm, .357, .45, and even a mild .44 mag, as well as .223 and .308. She is training to be a nurse, and knows that she will be traveling inner cities late at night alone. She wants a gun.

If we stay active, positive, and work hard for our cause, we will be successful. Don't turn inward, don't get bitter, or angry.

I think Arc has it right when he argues that the only way to fix a place like Massachusetts, is to stay there and fight the good fight. So for all of you in tough states, keep fighting. My kids are doing so in Mass, and they are making a difference. You can too.

[sing cadence]Demonstrate, communicate, legislate, BOOM BOOM![/sing cadence]

ETA: The fight doesn't end when you live in a "free state" such as Florida either. After the Stoneman Douglas shootings, we lost some rights to the virtue signalers on the Orange County Commission, as well as losing some rights to Rick Scott's desire to beat Bill Nelson for the Senate. Make no mistake. If Rick Scott hadn't supported some level of increased scrutiny on guns after the MSD high school shooting, Bill Nelson would still be the Senior Senator from Florida. I'm not happy with Scott for doing it, but I voted for him, because on balance, he will be better than Nelson ever was, and citizens are challenging the law he (and Orange County) passed in the courts. Furthermore, I now have identified people who were working their way up the ladder through the Orange County Commission that I can never vote for again. Hopefully this will kill their careers while they are still little fish.

Never give up.

ETA2: Here's an example that it can work. See Posts 1 and 3 in the thread:

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...120038564#4120038564

ETA3: Change "Rick Nelson" to the correct "Bill Nelson"

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ArtieS,

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
My main issue with a typical leftist/democrat on the issue of civil war or revolution, is that in both cases they believe someone else will fight it for them.

The cries of "resistance" and other shit from the left are hollow. By their very nature they won't take up arms themselves, so any of them crowing for revolution or civil war can be disregarded as fodder should such actually occur.

This is exactly what I believe as well. They by and far expect their agendas and mandates that they push will just be accepted as is wholesale, and they take it for granted that it will be as they want it to be and that others will do the down and dirty to make it happen because its expected to do so [entitled] - they figure like most everything they have been able to push through will eventually be pushed through including gun control one little bill at a time chipping away against everyone that opposes them.

And liberals and democrats have been winning - in a large part due to apathy and the expectation by anyone not liberal or democrat that well, it wont happen here - its just there - there being conveniently not well, here. Till it is. We just keep doing the right things, working, living paying taxes, general adulting responsibly and who has time otherwise right?

When the typical leftist/democrat is forced to carry the water things will shift - quick fast and in a hurry. Its cheap for liberal and democrat politicians to mandate from on high - if there was an actual cost beyond a few well written letters of rebuttal or some petition or a protest rally with even millions that show signs and run around in kit (still awesome to see but wont effectively change anything) but actual down and dirty work they had to do and not just pay others to enact them for their "beliefs" then I believe the narrative will shift if they find not enough carrying their water. They are even trying to change laws to maintain power even if the masses do not agree with their duly elected responsibility to use their office for the people, not against them - bill in VA to keep pwer that I read that they changed the percentage for a recall to avoid having to deal with that over gun control - so they are working hard to even lock in attempts to push them out through legal channels. That is I have to say brilliant as its true chess moves - we need to be where the democrats and liberals have been for years playing offensively.

Liberals and democrats in the end just expect their water to be carried - because it has been for years - look at the MSM, the FBI, DOJ etc - home team advantage they see it and their doing it safely from the sidelines - nay well - the sky box safely off field - when their actions start costing them and they are forced to be on field - then and only then will things change. Their audience is easily swayed - mostly NPC's

*"beliefs" - just part of their platform for their audience, many times they don't even believe it personally - look at the hypocritical things they do including gun control but carry personally for example

quote:

Originally posted by Sunset_Va:
Recently, our weekly local newspaper, located at the county seat, did a "Man on the Street" questionaire with 5 people. 3 men, 2 women, young and old, black, and white.

"Do you approve of Gun Registration?"

Every one of them answered Yes, with most all stating they thought it would help prevent crime. Registration has nothing to do with reducing crime, as we know, but I was just amazed at how clueless those citizens were about the true nature of the gun registration .

Expand the conversation and you'll find those same folks are utterly clueless about most everything. The educational system along with Hollywierd and the media have helped to create an entire generation of virtual morons that know very little about anything.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
My main issue with a typical leftist/democrat on the issue of civil war or revolution, is that in both cases they believe someone else will fight it for them...

That is the way I feel about them too, and I believe that is accurate within the rank and file of the Left, but then I wonder if that is an underestimation of the Left at the leadership level. I think that there must be some attempt at ideological recruitment within the military.



.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
My main issue with a typical leftist/democrat on the issue of civil war or revolution, is that in both cases they believe someone else will fight it for them.

The cries of "resistance" and other shit from the left are hollow. By their very nature they won't take up arms themselves, so any of them crowing for revolution or civil war can be disregarded as fodder should such actually occur.

I think a few of them should read Unintended Consequences, Part 3.

flashguy

one of my all-time favorite books

its a great read

Yep. It scared the shit out them back when it came out. Seems largely forgotten today. It would outright terrify a lot of leftists today, as it should. That book was a warning.

quote:

Liberals and democrats in the end just expect their water to be carried - because it has been for years

Never underestimate a liberal's capacity to believe he, she or it is "normal" - and that they're just better at being "normal" than the rest of us.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
I think a few of them should read Unintended Consequences, Part 3.
flashguy

I had three hard copies back in the day, all of which grew legs.

Ordered this autographed Unintended Consequences in softcover replacement a few moments ago.

Just placed an order for the book.

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
Just placed an order for the book.

If you haven’t read it before, it’s a bit of a slog, but it’s worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
Just placed an order for the book.

If you haven’t read it before, it’s a bit of a slog, but it’s worth it.

Part 3 ought to scare the bejezus out of the corrupt politicians on board right now.

flashguy

It should, but most of them don’t appear to be anything approaching well-read renaissance types and probably wouldn’t understand what they’re reading.

Can you imagine Adam Schiff reading that book? I picture something very similar to the comedic charicature of him on Greg Gutfeld’s show (someone needs to do a compilation of all those skits, they’re so good).

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Even in the big cities, the NG and local LE would have very little compliance with confiscation. Who do they think joins the NG and local LE?

A NG officer and cop was just showing me photos of the Virginia rally yesterday and commenting in solidarity, “they” are “us” and the Libs are in for a shock.

They might comply facing termination or a felony court marshall, but what proportion would be willing to take that kind of hit? I emailed a radio talk show host who was interviewing a chief of police live on the air. My question was how might he possibly handle a situation where the city manager ordered his department to enforce gun bans or worse, confiscation. The host read the email and the chief laughed and said he would not answer that question. I can't blame him, my question wasn't exactly fair, since his superiors are politicians or political appointees.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Even in the big cities, the NG and local LE would have very little compliance with confiscation. Who do they think joins the NG and local LE?

A NG officer and cop was just showing me photos of the Virginia rally yesterday and commenting in solidarity, “they” are “us” and the Libs are in for a shock.

They might comply facing termination or a felony court marshall, but what proportion would be willing to take that kind of hit?

The ones that don’t want to die, I’d say. Oh, and that doesn’t take into account the large number that actually take the Constitution seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Even in the big cities, the NG and local LE would have very little compliance with confiscation. Who do they think joins the NG and local LE?

A NG officer and cop was just showing me photos of the Virginia rally yesterday and commenting in solidarity, “they” are “us” and the Libs are in for a shock.

They might comply facing termination or a felony court marshall, but what proportion would be willing to take that kind of hit?

The ones that don’t want to die, I’d say. Oh, and that doesn’t take into account the large number that actually take the Constitution seriously.

I hope you're right. Based on your long experience in LE, some would carry out such orders, wouldn't they, particularly if they strongly support the left ? Or would the brass automatically shut down such operations if some significant number of officers just said no?

Some would. Or more appropriately some would try.

Cops don’t grow on trees. Recruiting is harder and harder by the day. And guns is a very small part of this. Policing doesn’t stop because some clown wants to confiscate guns. Unless the chief, mayor, and alderman are going to suit up, if a percentage of your work force says no, you’re fucked. You fire, suspend or reprimand even a percentage, you can’t answers the calls for service on the day to day.

Right now, everyone is short handed as it is.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
Even in the big cities, the NG and local LE would have very little compliance with confiscation. Who do they think joins the NG and local LE?

A NG officer and cop was just showing me photos of the Virginia rally yesterday and commenting in solidarity, “they” are “us” and the Libs are in for a shock.

They might comply facing termination or a felony court marshall, but what proportion would be willing to take that kind of hit? I emailed a radio talk show host who was interviewing a chief of police live on the air. My question was how might he possibly handle a situation where the city manager ordered his department to enforce gun bans or worse, confiscation. The host read the email and the chief laughed and said he would not answer that question. I can't blame him, my question wasn't exactly fair, since his superiors are politicians or political appointees.

It wouldn’t be a lawful order and can be challenged through JAG channels. Heck, I would be surprised if the TAG in question (head of the NG of a state), would even follow it after counseling with his/her JAG attorney and understanding the ramifications in a way no lib ever could.

Beyond that officers can resign their commissions, enlisted could just not show up, say they didn’t get the message, out of cell range. I also wouldn’t expect actual court marshals and if there were there is still the legal question of lawfulness and the jury will be peer military not civilians.

These are just my personal opinions and in no way reflects the official position of the Army.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Cops don’t grow on trees. Recruiting is harder and harder by the day. And guns is a very small part of this. Policing doesn’t stop because some clown wants to confiscate guns. Unless the chief, mayor, and alderman are going to suit up, if a percentage of your work force says no, you’re fucked. You fire, suspend or reprimand even a percentage, you can’t answers the calls for service on the day to day.

Right now, everyone is short handed as it is.

This is 100% true. It’s actually somewhat of a humorous unintended consequence of the liberals demonizing police every chance they get. Recruitment of LEOs is in the toilet nationwide. I’d challenge anyone to find a larger police agency nationwide that isn’t down on numbers. The reality is that there just aren’t the number of cops out there nationwide to be able to pull off something like this.

A sudden gun grab made possible by overnight draconian laws might well spark a revolution. I don’t think it will happen like that.

Socialist movements have historically had patience. How to eliminate guns? Slowly and with “conditioning”.

For instance is it acceptable to use red flag laws to remove firearms from those judged insane? Sound reasonable. Population becomes conditioned to this. Then expand definition of insane or otherwise expand red flag laws.

How about those with violent tendencies? What’s that? Someone who criticises a politician on social media? Condition population and expand reach. Repeat.

Expand definition of insane to include everyone who disagrees with govt!


Continue to propagandize each generation in school.

As red flag laws expand to include more behavior, more guns get collected. Population is gradually acclimated to more classes of people subject to confiscation.

How does one eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

First confiscate from criminal class, then;
Criminally insane, then mildly insane, the depressed, those with mild drepression, , then anyone taking medication for depression or other mental condition, then vets who have been in combat( They all have ptsd and are therefore potentially violent), then elderly(unable to make informed decisions), then all vets (can’t have trained killers loose in a peaceful society), then those who have been reported by neighbors or citizens as having made anti social statements, then those who have made disagreeable statements on line, then those who disagree with the authorities.

See the pattern here? Each escalation is accepted by the population as the population is gradually conditioned to accept a more encompassing definition of aberrant behavior justifying loss of rights in order to “protect society”. Eventually, citizen gun ownership is outlawed and is acceptable as the norm by the society.