He is 21 and a good kid. Head strong and responsible but a slow self starter. If pushed, he digs in and won't budge. When he decides on his own, he makes it happen. No idea were that particular character trait came from (sigh). He is currently nearing the completion of an Associates Degree in Computer Science, looking at cyber security or gaming, depending on the day of the week (another sigh). He does follow directions, and recognizes authority, so not really a rebel, just has the self confidence of one who hasn't been fully tested.
I was discouraged from military service at his age, and I have some regrets over it. I think that I missed out on an awesome opportunity, on many levels. I want to help him to make the best decision for himself, without injecting my own personal issues into the mix.
Help with sorting fact from fiction with recruiters. Pitfalls to be aware of. General career guidance, or will it translate to marketable experience. I don't know really what to ask, but I've read enough to appreciate the vast knowledge and experience of the members on this board.
It will be his decision, I just want to help him make it an informed one.

Any help is appreciated. Thank you for the read. doubly thanks for any and all comments.
Louie H

Does he golf?

You just made me laugh. I don't know what that has to do with anything, but he interested in learning. He wants to go out and buy clubs but I've talked him into using mine until he has a little more experience. they don't fit him well, but they are at least a tuned, consistent set.
Worse yet, he likes to WATCH golf. I like to play, but to watch... Like watching paint dry.

Golf is very popular among command areas of the Air Force. Some say that decisions are made out there instead of in the office.

As for his situation - if he can pick up his Bachelor's, he can then go in as an officer. If he wants to go in now, he will be enlisted, but may get additional stripes due to the education.

He attitude will have to change - failure to take an order is the fastest way back out of the service with a less than general discharge. That can affect your future.

The attitude I guess is part of what has me worried. He can control it when he chooses to, but it's gonna leak out. Just a matter of to what extent.

The only real regrets I have from my glorious USAF stint are I was too stupid to take advantage of these offers:
EOD School.
Military Working Dog School.
Bootstrap. Yep, I could have been an officer.
Community College of the AF and its affiliation with local Colleges. Yep, a degree for damn near nothing.
I failed to act on these opportunities and I kick myself now.
Military service is something that you get back what you put into it.
And I did not take up golf. I went with tennis. Breezy at -20!

What I did not see anywhere in your original post was whether your son actually wants to go into the air force? Maybe we are supposed to assume that he does based on your question, but I just want to make sure. Because if he doesn't, or is on the fence, a hard push from you might not have the intended effect.

(I cannot help with your actual question, unfortunately, but just wanted to clarify this point).

Louie,

When the air force is given money to build an airfield they first build the golf course, then the officer's club, officer's quarters, enlisted quarters, and general amenities.

Once these are built, they are out of money and head back for more to build the runways and hangars.

Navy and Marine Corp do it the other way around.

Which base do you think has the better living conditions?

Me - I was 23 years in the Navy. I just pinned a map showing everywhere I've been - more than 30 different foreign cities with many of them more than once. Bring some good hiking shows, a great camera, and don't live in the bars.

Oh and to answer your question, try to explain to your son he should finish college and get his commission. It'll be worth it on many, many fronts.

When I was assigned to a Navy fast attack submarine in Pearl Harbor HI I had friends in the Air Force working at Hickam Field.

My sub regularly did weekly/monthly ops/Westpacs and I never knew when I would be in port or heading out.

My AF friends at Hickam had such a regular and dependable schedule that some had closet second jobs bartending and other things.

This was some time ago, but just sayin'.

The days of the “recruiter/weasel” are mostly over because of the internet and it’s availability to provide information. As a retired Marine I really can’t imagine much downside to the AF. Has he talked to a recruiter? If not, he needs to.

I see you're in the STL area. How close to Scott AFB and the IL Air Guard 126th ARW? M-11 Jr went that route in 2001. They prepared him for Basic Training and he had a much better idea of what to expect. Stayed 15 yrs as an NCO before his 'real' job got too demanding...he's now the Chief of Police for Scott City, MO. I know he'd be happy to no B.S. talk with you/your son. email in my profile.

Now that I look back I should have re-enlisted in the Air Force or Air NG not the Army.

I had friends who were in the Air Force and they enjoyed their time.

I was young and dumb when I first enlisted in the Army and did not know better. Now I am old, dumb and blind and I still don't know any better.

If I could do it over again, I would choose something such Intel, Geo-spatial or UAV.

Since I just re-enlisted earlier in the year, I have been looking at going back Combat Arms (Engineer, Scout, etcc.) I have always said that I would go back in a heart beat BUT BUT BUT I have really been thinking about the whole UAV program or intel. ((I should have chosen intel when i re-enlisted after the 17 year break in service) and not civil affairs.

Coming from a Navy guy, I would second the idea that he investigate the Air Guard if there is a unit local to him.

Otherwise out of all the services, the AF is the most business-like - ie, the have rules and agreements, then usually abide by them (work hours, Time off, etc). The other services are more ‘get it done’, which means lots of time trying to lasso the moon, engage warp driv for another unreasonable request, or field exercise.

And from an enlisted specialty perspective unless someone wants to be a killer/warrior (Marines / Army) or learn about nuke power plants (Navy), the USAF seems to be the way to go.

21 is old for an E2/3 (depending on how many credit hours they acknowledge). His peers will all be 18ish. You'll be surprised how many kids with 'some college' join the AF. Not a big deal but he should know that going in. I was 20 when I enlisted.

Once he takes the ASVAB or whatever it's called, that's when the real discussions will begin. He's getting an Associates in CS? Sounds like he'll do well on the test and can pretty much choose the job he wants. Don't let the recruiter influence his job choice. Make sure he understands what careers are available within the window he wants to enlist in. Ask questions about that job etc... Find the job that will look the best on the resume, provide for good translation to the civilian market, and get him lots of training & experience.

Once he gets to his duty station, have him start looking into the local university and start working on his BS in Computer Science.

quote:

Otherwise out of all the services, the AF is the most business-like - ie, the have rules and agreements, then usually abide by them (work hours, Time off, etc). The other services are more ‘get it done’, which means lots of time trying to lasso the moon, engage warp driv for another unreasonable request, or field exercise.

I would agree that it is less chaotic than the Army or Marine Corps, and probably the Navy aboard ship, but to say it is business-like with rules and agreements, whatever that means, is stupid. It is a military organization like any other and acts the part I can assure you.

I enjoyed my time in the AF. Over 21 years. A lot different now then it was a while ago.

And I never played golf. That was true a long time ago, but unless you are a GO, golf isn't as important as it used to be... And I've been in the "command areas". And fairly recently too, not 20-30 years ago. The reality is, for the vast majority of AF officers, and command position, golf is irreverent. Now the bar is a different story.

I would recommend going officer, but nothing wrong with enlisted (I did both). Job selection is critical, he needs to find something he likes to do (be it officer or enlisted) and something that translates to a job on the outside if the AF life isn't for him.

LOTS of opportunities in the military, from jobs, to education, to places to live. Of course, you take the good with the bad, but overall, I wouldn't trade my experience for anything.

What do I wish I knew? First and foremost, its YOUR career, and you have a lot more control over it than you think you do. You as an individual have more control over your career than you are initially led to believe, from assignments, jobs, promotions, ect. I wish I had learned that early on.

My wife is still in the AF (and she doesn't play golf either, even though she is in the "command areas"). She has a few years left until she retires. And she is a Civil Engineer, which means (among other things) she is responsible for managing the building stuff. She's smart enough to know what to build first (and it isn't a golf club or officers club). In fact, she spent time over in Iraq doing exactly that, building air bases.

I have a good friend that did 10 years AF (both enlisted time, then officer) then transferred to the Army to finish out his retirement as an officer. So he has seen both sides of Army and AF. Good and bad to both, but his preference is AF, buy a large margin.

More than happy to help out with recent AF experience. A good friend of mine (we were enlisted together) is Chief of a Recruiting Squadron. So he has a bit of experience too (and he does not play golf).

Shoot me an email if you have any specific questions.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
Military service is something that you get back what you put into it.

This is a very accurate statement. There is so much the military has to offer if you take advantage of it. You can do so much in the military, if you put in the effort.

quote:

Originally posted by LouieH:
Head strong and responsible but a slow self starter. If pushed, he digs in and won't budge. When he decides on his own, he makes it happen. No idea were that particular character trait came from (sigh)...

and won't in any way resemble those remarks after his first hitch.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Coming from a Navy guy, I would second the idea that he investigate the Air Guard if there is a unit local to him.

Otherwise out of all the services, the AF is the most business-like - ie, the have rules and agreements, then usually abide by them (work hours, Time off, etc). The other services are more ‘get it done’, which means lots of time trying to lasso the moon, engage warp driv for another unreasonable request, or field exercise.

And from an enlisted specialty perspective unless someone wants to be a killer/warrior (Marines / Army) or learn about nuke power plants (Navy), the USAF seems to be the way to go.

All military branches have rules and agreements. Unless you have spent considerable time in the AF, not sure how you can say the AF is most business-like. It is a military organization, and we all have rules and regulations to follow.

I've also spent a lot of time "getting it done", as did my Airmen. If you think the AF is all 9-5, you are mistaken. Sure, there are some jobs like that in the AF, as there are in every branch of the military.

And I had quite a few Airmen with more trigger time than one would believe (especially the guys running gun trucks, yes the Air Force did that).

Since I was the family vet, I walked my nephew through Air Force recruiting last year. Whatever happened “back in the day” is not applicable today. Forget about any commissioned officer program. The AF is loaded up with officers and makes the process very difficult. Even if you’re an engineering student who wants to fly or a doctor who wants to serve, the process is measured in years. Not months.

My nephew graduated college at the top of his class but was recruited as an E3. He’s in the EOD training pipeline. Already received half his bonus. If he can’t get commissioned during his 6 year enlistment he’ll probably end up going federal law enforcement.

While awaiting a date for boot camp, all the guys headed for EOD, para rescue, and combat control met outside Boston once a week to work out, test, learn about nutrition, establish a military bearing, etc. He’s been well-treated.

The recruiter was fair and honest. The recruits are expected to produce a lot more documentation compared to my experience. They’ll expect to see passport, SS card, transcripts, Boy Scout record, driving record, medical, etc. If he needs a TS they’ll start the process before he’s even sworn in.

I spent close to 10 years in the Air Force, and as xanth says, it is the military and there are rules and regulations to follow.

In my time in, I did Tactical Communications work, spent a ton of time traveling around the world with some long days and nights. I learned a ton and had a shitload of fun. There were also days I wondered WTF I'd gotten myself in to. My first few years, I probably spent more time sleeping on the ground or in tents that most Army folks did in a career.

I would have stayed in, but I had two young kids who didn't know who I was as I spent over 250 days a year on the road and I could not seem to get a non-travel, accompanied tour. When I got orders to a remote location where the family was not allowed, it was time to get out or lose the family, I chose family.