perhaps it was an air reserve pilot or something. I got issued nodos just like everyone else.

Likely the pilot had no clue how much everyone was working just for him to fly for 12 hours. Lawn dart drivers aren't exactly the most considerate of the bunch...and pretty much have no clue what happens outside their little "bubble".

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
I have been retired from the Army for longer than I was in, and my exposure to the Air Force was early in my career, but the one thing I’ll advise anyone interested in joining any of the armed forces is to get reliable information from the people who actually know what they’re talking about.
Although no one likes to admit it, life-changing decisions have been based on some clown’s juvenile comments about having to play golf to succeed in a career or how the officers club gets built before the runways.

Seconded. I expected more from SF members. Perhaps you should post what your AF experience is and how recent it is so that the OP can sort the wheat from the chaff.

This brings me to Rule #1 - Be informed.

CAUTION: My opinions are my own, and they are likely unpopular.

The AF has never seen an SJW idea it doesn't love. Expect lots of briefings on the care and use of other people's genitals. You will be expected to enthusiastically participate in whatever mandatory fun has been scheduled for the hyphenated-American/gender-of-the month. You will be judged on your enthusiasm. Bonus points if you participate. This will be considered more important than actually fighting and winning our nation's wars.

You will have to attend briefings in which you are told you are the best America has to offer. You will, in the same briefings, be treated as if you have the IQ of a bag of dog poop. Also mandatory are briefings on the evils of whites and males.

If your son wants to be an officer, do NOT go in as an enlisted person. While the USN enthusiastically makes officers out of enlisted folks, the USAF does this as a last resort. One of the best Intel folks I worked with couldn't make the jump because they cancelled the board several years in a row. Another friend made it and got RIF'd (along with all of the other prior enlisted folks in her class).

The USAF is great at doing tactical-level stuff. They do not do strategic-level stuff well. While I had a lot of fun, I did not retire with a sense that I had done anything that actually mattered in the grand scheme of things. Were I just wanting skills, discipline, or a free education, then it's great. Some of it is transferable to the civilian sector. Some of it is not. A lot depends on your age and career field.

Recruiters have one job, and that to get you to "buy" a career in the Air Force. Believe nothing until you verify it. (I now work at a high school, and I will say that the Marine and Navy recruiters are awesome. We've never seen the Army recruiter, and the USAF recruiter won't even return phone calls.) The needs of the Air Force have a lot more to do with what job you get than what degree you have. They need a lot more cops and mechanics than they do anything else. Going to a Guard or Reserve unit will give you a lot more control of how your future shakes out, and the enlisted-to-officer transition is a lot easier.

You'll meet some AWESOME people, and you'll meet some other folks. Some will be great leaders, and some you wouldn't follow to lunch.

I know I came across as a bit negative above. My intent was to be honest. In retrospect, I would take a different path because there are better ways for me to make a difference.

If you have specific questions, ask.

YMMV,
Herk

Could it be? I read this thread this morning and the last 2 times I have logged onto Facebook, I have gotten the USAF trying to recruit me!

Don't forget to check out the Coast Guard.

So when will we have a US Space Force? That will be so interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
perhaps it was an air reserve pilot or something. I got issued nodos just like everyone else.

Likely the pilot had no clue how much everyone was working just for him to fly for 12 hours. Lawn dart drivers aren't exactly the most considerate of the bunch...and pretty much have no clue what happens outside their little "bubble".

Save yourself the effort dude. I don't know how the AF can even fly without the protection of the great US Navy. It's a miracle really. They don't get days off which translates to more sorties, or something.

Heck, when they told us were going back to Afghanistan for the 5th time since 9/11, the first thing our pilots asked was "will the Navy also be there to protect us?" When told we weren't getting any Naval support, many pilots fled to Canada. We're now over here working with a skeleton crew of pilots. Terrible situation really. But with all of our days off it doesn't matter, we just leave the jets broke, grab our clubs and hit the links to knock out a quick 18. Such is life in the AF. Heck the other day my caddy didn't show up and I had to pull my own clubs from the bag. Can you imagine?!

But anyway, the Air Force has changed a lot recently so the only advice I could give is what some others have said - go guard or reserve first and test the waters. Much easier that way.

quote:

Originally posted by AirmanJeff:

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:

quote:

Otherwise out of all the services, the AF is the most business-like - ie, the have rules and agreements, then usually abide by them (work hours, Time off, etc). The other services are more ‘get it done’, which means lots of time trying to lasso the moon, engage warp driv for another unreasonable request, or field exercise.

I would agree that it is less chaotic than the Army or Marine Corps, and probably the Navy aboard ship, but to say it is business-like with rules and agreements, whatever that means, is stupid. It is a military organization like any other and acts the part I can assure you.

I served in the Navy for 26 years, many of those years deployed on air force bases. The above point is not "stupid" at all.

The Air Force is the least "get it done" service of them all. They do not respond well to emergent situations and have no trouble saying they can't or won't take a mission.

I served in Navy Aircraft Reconnaissance Squadrons on Air Force Bases and we always had to take on last minute and emergent missions because the Air Force (on an Air Force Base) was not available or able to fly the mission. We would spend 7 days a week on call to cover for the Air Force because they didn't fly weekends.

Other times I would send my Navy Technicians to work on Air Force aircraft because the Air Force didn't have anyone working on a weekend or holiday to prepare for the upcoming mission to be flown during the week. We'd work 7 days in a row so the Air Force could have weekends off.

As a Navy Avionics Technician I was sent to repair a flight radio on an Air Force aircraft while being watched by three Air Force Avionics Technicians. "we're not radio technicians" was what they told me when I asked why they were not working on the aircraft themselves.

I did meet some very professional Air Force personnel but they did not operate with the military "get it done" attitude I was used to.

Not a bash on the Air Force but they do not operate like the other branches. This may be a good thing or bad thing depending on the individual.

quote:

Originally posted by AirmanJeff:

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
perhaps it was an air reserve pilot or something. I got issued nodos just like everyone else.

Likely the pilot had no clue how much everyone was working just for him to fly for 12 hours. Lawn dart drivers aren't exactly the most considerate of the bunch...and pretty much have no clue what happens outside their little "bubble".

Save yourself the effort dude. I don't know how the AF can even fly without the protection of the great US Navy. It's a miracle really. They don't get days off which translates to more sorties, or something.

Heck, when they told us were going back to Afghanistan for the 5th time since 9/11, the first thing our pilots asked was "will the Navy also be there to protect us?" When told we weren't getting any Naval support, many pilots fled to Canada. We're now over here working with a skeleton crew of pilots. Terrible situation really. But with all of our days off it doesn't matter, we just leave the jets broke, grab our clubs and hit the links to knock out a quick 18. Such is life in the AF. Heck the other day my caddy didn't show up and I had to pull my own clubs from the bag. Can you imagine?!

But anyway, the Air Force has changed a lot recently so the only advice I could give is what some others have said - go guard or reserve first and test the waters. Much easier that way.

At Bagram all I saw the Navy do was work really hard to look busy, and send 100 people to the flight line to launch one bird... And they took up all the seating at the chow hall. Which was fine, because we just grabbed a bunch of to-go boxes and went back to work.

While every service has its own "stupid" and plenty of it...I'll never apologize for time spent in resorts, hotels, and air conditioned hooches when it was offered.

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
At Bagram all I saw the Navy do was work really hard to look busy, and send 100 people to the flight line to launch one bird... And they took up all the seating at the chow hall. Which was fine, because we just grabbed a bunch of to-go boxes and went back to work.

While every service has its own "stupid" and plenty of it...I'll never apologize for time spent in resorts, hotels, and air conditioned hooches when it was offered.

The Navy culture is to pull together and get the job done. Normally Navy units work with much less people than some of the other services do. Space is limited on ships so everyone turns-to when there is a job to do.

Maybe what you consider as "looking busy" was actually the Navy pulling together to ensure the mission launches successfully. When I worked the maintenance control desk on deployment I would demand everyone was standing by on the line to quickly address any pre-launch problems that may come up so we didn't have to delay or miss a mission. During my time in the Navy we took pride in accepting every mission we were given and completing the mission so it didn't have to be passed to anyone else.

A long time ago in an Air Force far, far away, that I was part of, people went Any Time, Any Place, some did not come home and some were never the same.

While I get the lighthearted inter-service rivalry, never, in my presence, make disparaging remarks about any of my fellow military members that have put it out there and honorably served.

There is a difference. Almost everyone that has served with honor understands, does not denigrate themselves at the expense of others who have also.

Those who do not understand, likely never did.

Yeah, everyone bitches about the suck and the ugly and the hardships, but not about the honorable things, the choosing to do and push because you believe it, and you put your self last in the thing.

And to answer the OP's question.

I wish he knew some of the people I knew along the way, and why...

"Love" is a funny/odd word when I think it, but I cannot think of anything better.

That is all.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
While I get the lighthearted inter-service rivalry, never, in my presence, make disparaging remarks about any of my fellow military members that have put it out there and honorably served.

Precisely. Thank you, sigmonkey.

Perhaps we can end the pissing contest, gentlemen?

To the OP, feel free to e-mail me. I’m currently at 21 years in the AF and still serving. I’ve held three distinctly separate AFSCs (job codes) and my current position puts me in contact with nearly every other AFSC there is. Ask whatever questions you can think of and I’ll find you an honest answer.

I spent 20 years in USAF and retired. My first 15 years were commissioned (2Lt through Captain) and the last 5 were enlisted (Sgt through TSgt). I will admit up front that I was never shot at, nor did I visit Vietnam, so I don't claim the title of "Vietnam Veteran". My officer duties were primarily management and supervision of enlisted men performing maintenance of ground electronic equipment, one of which was the radar with the largest rotating antenna ever deployed (12 of them only). My enlisted days were doing computer programming in COBOL.

I was stationed on a remote Oregon mountain, an island in the Pacific, coastal California, the coast of Labrador, mid-state South Carolina, Iran, and Germany. I found things to enjoy at all of them. (I believe that happiness is a condition that the person controls--if he wants to be happy, he will be, no matter what the external situation is.)

Anyone who is not capable of following orders and rules will not enjoy any branch of the military. Of the 5 services, USAF is perhaps the least stringent with rules, but they exist and must be followed.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
I spent 20 years in USAF and retired. My first 15 years were commissioned (2Lt through Captain) and the last 5 were enlisted (Sgt through TSgt). I will admit up front that I was never shot at, nor did I visit Vietnam, so I don't claim the title of "Vietnam Veteran". My officer duties were primarily management and supervision of enlisted men performing maintenance of ground electronic equipment, one of which was the radar with the largest rotating antenna ever deployed (12 of them only). My enlisted days were doing computer programming in COBOL.

I was stationed on a remote Oregon mountain, an island in the Pacific, coastal California, the coast of Labrador, mid-state South Carolina, Iran, and Germany. I found things to enjoy at all of them. (I believe that happiness is a condition that the person controls--if he wants to be happy, he will be, no matter what the external situation is.)

Anyone who is not capable of following orders and rules will not enjoy any branch of the military. Of the 5 services, USAF is perhaps the least stringent with rules, but they exist and must be followed.

flashguy

And don't forget- the services have changed quite a bit over our adult years. For instance, the drug trade and 9/11 drastically changed the Coast Guard. 9/11/GWOT certainly affected all of the branches.

I was submarine Navy, but I'll always have extra respect for the Army and Marine folks because they deal with some of the most dangerous and up-front personal assignments. Crawling up a WWII beach head while multiple machine gun positions fire on you takes... character.

Clearing neighborhoods, TCPs, avoiding snipers/IEDs in sandy places is kinda basically a high-risk proposition from the start. Not to mention dealing with the BS rules of engagement. Very few fobbits in those fields.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy: I was stationed on a remote Oregon mountain ...

Really? My brother was stationed on very probably that same mountain, circa 1965-66. (I was in about fourth grade then.)

I served 37 years active and reserve and mentored many young men and women. My eldest son and youngest daughter are career active duty as well. We all love the USAF and would do it all over again. A few inarguables to consider.

1. Get the practice book and study for the ASVAB. There are a lot of smart people vying for the good AF jobs. The higher your ASVAB scores in all 4 areas the more specialties you qualify for. Each field has a cutoff score and if you don't make it you won't be considered for that field. With his computer science degree he may have a good shot at one of the most sought after career fields in IT. Your recruiter will give a computerized pre-test before you go to the ASVAB test to give him some indication.

2. Finish that 2 year degree. He will enlist at two grades above those who don't have the degree.

3. Get in shape. Run and pushups. This is not your grandpa's Air Force. Basic is 8.5 weeks and fitness standards are much higher since 2001. If Special Tactics or EOD is an interest, swimming and upper body strength are important. Crossfit helps to get ready. You have to meet weight standards to get in.

4. Don't get into trouble with alcohol or drugs. USAF won't touch you with a history of alcohol or drugs problems.

5. Go to the internet and study the career fields to find what interests you. If you have an air base or air guard base nearby try to find someone who can introduce you to someone in that career field. Get the straight story from someone doing the job.

6. Study the ASVAB

7. Study the ASVAB

8. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
A long time ago in an Air Force far, far away, that I was part of, people went Any Time, Any Place, some did not come home and some were never the same.

While I get the lighthearted inter-service rivalry, never, in my presence, make disparaging remarks about any of my fellow military members that have put it out there and honorably served.

There is a difference. Almost everyone that has served with honor understands, does not denigrate themselves at the expense of others who have also.

Those who do not understand, likely never did.

Yeah, everyone bitches about the suck and the ugly and the hardships, but not about the honorable things, the choosing to do and push because you believe it, and you put your self last in the thing.

And to answer the OP's question.

I wish he knew some of the people I knew along the way, and why...

"Love" is a funny/odd word when I think it, but I cannot think of anything better.

That is all.

And amen. Full Air Force career, the son of a Navy veteran, I've held G-Series orders more than once, and it was my privilege to command some of the finest people on the planet, some from sister services. Anyone who puts on any uniform is a hero to me until proven otherwise.

I would also like to add that when deployed, you are THE most protected asset (Air Force base) in the country.

While sure, you may get mortar/rocket rounds incoming a few times a day, it's nothing like a forward operating base.

In my 27+ years, I had one troop wounded in a combat zone by enemy fire. A mortar round landed in his hooch (trailer)and went through his roomates' bunk. Fortunately, his roomie was at work.

It's a sobering thought that some of the people you're sitting down with at chow (Army, Marines, etc.) may not be alive for the next meal.

Regardless of how we may feel about our other services, I will ALWAYS respect them.

The only advice I can give is to have the prospective airman to actually go visit a base with a recruiter or someone else, stop and talk to everyone about their jobs.

I did this with my biggest kid when he wanted to join the USMC, NC has all five services and we went to them all.

He was able to make an informed decision about what he wanted to do. Unfortunately the USMC wouldn’t waiver a open container ticket he got as a teenager, but the Army did and he served honorably and got out after four years with 9/11 GI benefits. So he can now go to school if he chooses.