A few months back I posted about my son losing his job as a tractor trailer driver for UPS. He had been with UPS for almost 18years.
At the time that he was fired he mentioned joining the Army Natl Guard.
My wife and I STRONGLY resisted this career choice. He just turned 36 in January, has 3 small kids and another due next month.His wife works as a nurse.
He is bound and determined to join the Army, we will support his choice even if we don't like it.
He initially took some aptitude test and scored well. He was offered almost any job they said he wanted. The enlistment is dragging on because of his age and dependents but his recruiter is still working on his enlistment trying to iron out the family and age issues, supposedly that is almost accomplished.
This week they had him go to a Hotel for a night and give him more tests, in this case the ASVAB test.He also had to have a physical.
He scored a 81 on the ASVAB test, again the Army told him he was golden for what ever he wanted to do.
Initially they slated him for Semi-Truck driving. They told him with his experience he would start as a E-4 and as a supervisor.
After his most recent test they suggested he become a Cyber Operations Specialist.He would have too start at the bottom and go to a longer training program, but the eventual pay and job availability in the private sector would be fantastic going forward.

My problem is I don't trust anything (The Army) they say.
My fear is that its all a charade to get people in and promises will never pan out, he will end up as a foot soldier.

He said months ago that he no longer wanted to drive a truck. My thought to him was I can't imagine a better target in combat than a semi-truck loaded with munitions or fuel. "I will never be able to support a job that makes you a target".

My question to you, who have direct insight to the Army ways is, CAN they be trusted ( I chuckle to myself when thinking about this)?

I remember back in the late 60's when the USA still had the draft, that several of my friends enlisted to avoid being drafted because they THOUGHT they would learn a job that would pay off when they left the military. It never worked out for any of them. They all found that the jobs they were offered needed a test score that a MIT grad would have trouble scoring.
My Son has NO computer skills that I know about other than operating his phone, he doesn't even own a computer( his wife does). I don't want him joining only to be told further down the line that he does not make the cut for the Cyber job they are hanging in front of him.

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My question to you, who have direct insight to the Army ways is, CAN they be trusted ( I chuckle to myself when thinking about this)?

You already know the answer to your question.

For that MOS, if he joins the guard, unless he’s connected, he will probably never see SGT. Guard is notorious for politics and nepotism. Someone needs to retire or die to get promoted.

As someone who has 15 years in service and currently a field grade officer, my advice is for him to skip the military. It has changed drastically in the past 15 years. Many of my friends who were combat vets have now retired. I’m stuck with a bunch of slick sleeve wannabe cool guys. Shit in the movies is very far from reality.

But you as his father, if you were not able to talk some sense into him about this, there isn’t anything some dude on a forum can say which would make a difference.

I never thought I’d be that old fart counting down to retirement but here I am. My goal is to retire an O6 but I’m not sure I can hang around that long.

If I could turn back the clock knowing what I know now, I’d would’ve told my 18 year old self to join the Navy as a SeaBee and learned how to be a an electrician. They’ll train you, out that training to use and you have a skill that’s immediately useful in the civilian world.

He can go do cyber whatever but the goal posts will constantly move. Army taught you? That’s great but do you have a bachelors? You do! How about a masters? You do! How about certificates? You do! Are they up to date? It keeps going and going.

There are better ways to make a living than the military.

He needs to join the AIR National Guard

Not the ARMY National Guard

It’s not too late to tell those Army recruiters bye-bye and find an ANG recruiter.

I joined the Army National Guard after a break in service from active duty Army and absolutely hated it. Luckily, I had only signed up for one year and bolted as soon as my year was up and went into the Air National Guard for six years and loved it.

As a former AIT( advanced individual training ) Drill Sgt. during early 1970"s saw many trainees who were supposidly promised all kinds of later jobs / assignments after training that upon graduation were sent where the Army wanted them to go.... Even if they had paperwork that guaranted a particular assignment job / location Especially the ones that required a security clearance before they could be shipped out to a duty station even after they sucessfully graduated the schooling because during the background investigation something was found (even something we would consider minor in their background that they had done years ago when they were young an dumb which disqualified them and were again sent where the Army wanted to send them and the troops had no say in the matter.................... I can tell you a truck driver in the military is no way near anything on the civilian side..... .............. Because of your sons age he will be on the upper age of the trainee spectrum just starting out so he will be under the leadership of people almost 1/2 his age....... One of the reasons that I got out was that I had been promoted to SSGT.( Staff Sgt. E-6) in just under 3 years but 6 yrs later I had more than enough time in grade to be promoted to E-7 Sargent First Class but would have to wait at least another 5 to 7yrs before being eligible for promotion...... Rank promotion is slow and hard during peacetime Army....................... With the wokeness associated with the military these days I do not know what to say to your son for either direction to join or not join...But needs to think long and hard about joining............ I gave 9 1/2yrs active and the wife gave 8 1/2yrs active duty....... After returning home checked into different guard units so as to build up time for retirement and they wanted me real bad ( because of my former Drill Sgt. status but they only offered E-5 to start and after 6months E-6 but told them I knew the drill and wanted E-6 from day 1 and they chased me for about 1 year but realized I would not accept the E-5 rank to start back so they backed off.... Best of luck for which ever route he takes. .......................... drill sgt.

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He just turned 36 in January, has 3 small kids and another due next month.His wife works as a nurse.

That right there is the biggest reason for him not to continue down the path of joining the military. Air Guard as PASig pointed out would have better opportunities however at his age, the excitement will wear off very fast the low-level BS he'll being dealing with on a constant basis will dwarf whatever issues he faced in civilian life, not to mention, his family life will bear the brunt of all the changes.

He's got 18yrs of experience with a major carrier, has he considered being a Commercial Vehicle Inspector or Motor Carrier Inspector for the state? Not sure what IL pays or if that's a unionized job. I know here in CA, you start off doing inspections at weigh stations, then move up to being independent/mobile. You get assigned a vehicle to take home and go out to inspect fleet operations, with occasional adventures with the highway patrol on strike force assignments & busts.

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Thanks, great suggestion.

This is current, real experience-based advice, for what its worth to you.

In the Army and Marines, no matter what your MOS you still face the likelihood of spending time in the field. The USAF and Navy offer a much greater likelihood of sticking to your craft in an Agency environment rather than a radio battalion environment.

With all that said, if he goes with a 35 prefix MOS, which I believe is the Army intelligence equivalents to the Navy, then that's what he is. I'm a CTI (linguist) in the USN, I've worked with the Agency for nearly 9 years now, that doesn't mean I can't end up on direct support deployed somewhere, as a linguist. Nothing guarantees the environment you will work in, but the Navy and USAF tend to guarantee the WORK you'll do in that environment a little better.

I don't believe they will be changing his MOS unless he for some reason fails training or gets in trouble and cannot get a clearance.

As to trusting the recruiters, I'll tell you a secret. All the charade-like swearing in at MEPS when you sign your contract and this nonsense is nothing more than show. Up until you go to MEPS to GO TO BOOTCAMP, you can walk away. No repercussions. They will tell you, you signed, blah blah blah. Walk away, and let them explain to their E7 or JO why they lost a highly qualified recruit.

He tells the recruiter what he wants, if that contract doesn't say it, never leave to go to MEPS for the flight to boot camp. Simple as that.

My question though, why the Army? If he wants to go intelligence, much better choices.

And age doesn't matter for enlisting, not in your 30's anyway, I was 31. I feel the age has helped me take FULL advantage of all the military has to offer, I think it's made my experience MUCH better. And I get to retire at 51. That's from direct experience.

I'm not sure he's going to find full-time employment anywhere in the Guard, once he's completed his Basic/AIT or OSUT. And you're not going to make a living just in drill and AT pay.

Recruiters aren't "untrustworthy" exactly, it's just they have vacancies to fill, and they may nudge recruits in certain directions. Cyber is the new shiny thing, and I know some folks in the unit I retired from were salivating at the chance to reclassify. Pretty sure at least SOME of the retired training results in civilian certifications.

Between driving a truck (and Army semis are not at all like what you see on the interstate) and working cyber, I'd do the latter. But again...it's not a full-time gig unless you get an AGR (Active Guard/Reserve) job or luck into some special project. In the WVARNG there is ONE cyber AGR slot and that's for an officer. There are NO full-time 88M (Motor Transport Operator) jobs. I know a few 88Ms who are on full-time orders, but they lucked into special projects and aren't employed doing driving stuff.

If you don't trust the recruiter, nothing I'm going to type will change it. I'd tell you to trust your gut and continue to look out for your son's best intrests.

A good person who is a recruiter won't lie, but they will let you believe what you need to IOT get you to sign. "Sure, you can volunteer for Special Forces when you are at cook school". You might be able to (if you are active duty), IF SF is looking for people.

A recruiter that's in it for advancement/themselves will definitely lie to get you to sign. "No, you'll never deploy and be home every night at 1700".

That said, I've got 19 years in on Active duty.
Guard/Reserve is different, so my observations are not exactly what your son might encounter.

I signed a contracted that specified length of service (min 8 years combination of active/reserve), Military Ocupation Specialty and bonus. The guard may do things differently, but if the Army guaranteed you an MOS you were going to that school. Now IF you failed out of school or got disqualified from that MOS (Security Clearance), you would wind up needs of the Army (Infantry, Water Purification, MEchanic, Cook, whatever we are short on). The Guard is probably a little different in that respect. But, your Son will probably not sign up for truck driver, get sent to Truck Driver School and then told to get on a bus for FT Moore to go Infantry. Unless he fails truck driver school.

I'd actully look at the Cyber MOS if he is qualified. It'll get him better training and a security clearance, both of which can be used for finding a better civilian job. Plus the Guard Cyber guys I know were able to get full time employment(for now anyway).

As mentioned, getting promoted in the Guard is based on Billets and vacancies, so it can take a long time to move up. I've known guys that changed states to get promoted. The Old Boy Network is a live and well.


The OPTEMPO of the force is pretty heavy at the moment and they are leverage Guard and Reserve forces globally both as unit and as individual augmentees. So, he could wind up getting activated and doing a rotation or he could just do his monthly drills and annual training.

Deep down, your Son knows if he wants to be a Soldier. If he really wants it, he is going to go for it. If he's going to do it, best do it while he is young.

However, given his age and family situation, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. Imagine if he gets activated for a 6-month rotation to Europe. Now his wife has to handle 3 kids and her job, is the Family ready for that? Given his age, he won't physiclly recover as fast as the younger Soldiers and might be more prone to injury.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: CD228,

I know the current leadership at the top is troublesome, political. Besides that I don’t see the reason for the angst with the military. Of course one has to use their head.

One Son is currently in the Coast Guard, I started in the Guard before I graduated high school. Later I did almost 9 years active duty.

Most people benefit from some time in the military, not for everyone though. Not all are cutout to be a ‘Rambo’, that’s ok, need cooks & admin also.

Once done with initial training, your son would acclimate to a part time job. Of course, one has to understand there could be a call-up of sorts if needed.

Adults need to make adult type decisions. I’d think it’s more of an issue of the rest of the family getting by while he’s gone. If he gets accepted & wants to go, if I was his parent I’d support the idea. If living close, I’d try to help while he’s away.

While most Guardsmen are part time, some Guard units do have a handful of full time AGR (Active Guard/Reserve) positions.

I have a buddy who did just that. Joined the Air Guard to do some flavor of Cyber/IT MOS, and when he graduated training, started full time at the local Air Guard base shortly thereafter. He does computer work for them for 40 hours during the week, plus his drill weekends.

But that's dependent on them having full time slots open, and having the right MOS. There very well may not be any full time AGR truck drivers anywhere, for example, while the chances of potentially finding a AGR slot for something relating to stuff like administration/accounting/computers/firefighting/etc. are a bit higher.

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:
While most Guardsmen are part time, some Guard units do have a handful of full time AGR (Active Guard/Reserve) positions.

I have a buddy who did just that. Joined the Air Guard to do some flavor of Cyber/IT MOS, and when he graduated training, started full time at the local Air Guard base shortly thereafter. He does computer work for them for 40 hours during the week, plus his drill weekends.

But that's dependent on them having full time slots open, and having the right MOS. There very well may not be any full time AGR truck drivers anywhere, for example, while the chances of potentially finding a AGR slot for something relating to stuff like administration/accounting/computers/firefighting/etc. are a bit higher.

This is important. If I get out and decide to go reserves, there has to be a quota for the reserves for my Rate, if that doesn't exist the month I get out. I'm doing a different job in the reserves than I do active duty. This is all getting a bit ahead of the game.

While 36 is a little old to enlist, if he can get stationed at one of the Operation Centers for the Agency, networking and busting your ass can easily land you a job after your one enlistment is done. You'll likely start out at G7/8, but the path is there. If that's something that interests him.

I guess the ASVAB has changed since I took it in 1990 (who would have thunk it). I recall it was scored like a test from high school, 100 possible points in a few categories. I recall that 90 was my lowest and 98 my highest.

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Originally posted by mrvmax:
I guess the ASVAB has changed since I took it in 1990 (who would have thunk it). I recall it was scored like a test from high school, 100 possible points in a few categories. I recall that 90 was my lowest and 98 my highest.

It’s a percentile score now, 99 being the highest. I took mine 13 years after high school. Most folks in the upper 90s are directed toward linguist or Nuke rates in the Navy anyway.

It still has scoring in different aptitude sections which also have minimum scores for different rates.

I joined the guard at age 35. 42r (army musician) I’m a school music teacher, masters in music education. I picked my job in the army, not the other way around. I had a 95 asvab score and was offered other things, but I had my job picked out in my unit. Be specific about “I want this job, this unit, this place, etc” and they will make it happen. Don’t hesitate to call the recruiter and say you want to “Reno” (renew) the contract. The army will find a job with those skills. Also, get a high level mos if possible, then you can go to other schools later on to pick up additional skills. I didn’t need the guard, but they needed me. Flip the tables on them and make them work for you.

Is he against moving? The Border Patrol is offering a 20k bonus right now. 30k if he's willing to go to certain areas. There is a possibility of moving to the northern border after a handful of years.

He needs to get on the ball though as he is going to run up to the 37 year old cut off. Might be a better option than the Guard at his age.

If he's interested let me know and I can get you in touch with a recruiter.

Don't trust anything any recruiter says.
Back in early 2000 I was thinking of joining the USMC.
They sent me in to take the ASVAB.
I scored a 99 (highest possible score as it's percentile based).
They told me I could do anything job at all.

I looked through their book and had some questions.
I ended up saying to sign me up as a radio/computer repair technician (MOS 2800)
They actually signed me up for MOS 2500 - which was a radio operator.

I didn't actually discover the mix-up until after I get through boot camp and was being prepped to go to my MOS school.
I was clearly not happy but nobody would do anything about it.

IIRC, the OP's son got fired from his previous job for making a comment about running over a supervisor with a truck. I imagine it was probably an exaggeration made out of frustration and not a legitimate threat, but that's likely going to come up in any background investigation. For those suggesting that he pursue an MOS that require a security clearance, would having that in his background prevent him from getting one (and thus nullify his contract and leave the army free to stick him where they want him)?

I didn’t need the guard they needed me. Says the army musician. Wtf? I need to be emperor right now.

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Originally posted by pedropcola:
I didn’t need the guard they needed me. Says the army musician. Wtf? I need to be emperor right now.

You would be surprised at how difficult it would be to find someone for that MOS. The audition process itself would eliminate a lot of people who can play the instrument but aren't technical musicians. Factor in being able to pass the background, health and fitness tests and that cuts the eligible pool down even more.