$90K for a pick up truck sounds insane no matter how much it is "loaded". I understand people getting nice vehicles and spending a good amount but truck prices in general are completely insane, in my opinion. A few guys I work with have spent about 50K on their truck and some they bought seem just like the base model-plain/basic cloth interior,bench seat in front, rubber floor mat instead of carpet,etc.. I bought a truck years ago when I needed it,as I had a business I needed to haul things with but some people just get them because of status or whatever. I really don't care why they get them and that is the beauty of having choices but overall, I would never pay that amount just to have a cool ride. I am curious what is going to happen when gas prices go higher. I remember the last time gas prices went to almost $4.00/gallon by me, as well as many here do, and I saw truck prices plummet. We were able to get, at that time, a Ford Expedition for a little over $20K. Granted it wasn't the Eddie Bauer but close. At the time, we didn't work very far from our jobs so the gas prices really didn't hurt us as much as others. Personally I can't fathom having a "second mortgage payment" in a vehicle with no telling how long these values are going to hold. First world problems.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by Crockett040:
I thought Ford didn't take any bailout Money?

They didn’t. And besides, how does that figure in to the current chip shortage and the corollary high car/truck prices?

It doesn't have any bearing. I am just tired of hearing " screw GM, they took bail out money" whenever a question is asked about a GM product. Consider it a PSA

Ford did take bailout money, they all did. It's not a secret

Ford did not take TARP money. Ford did not cease to exist. Ford stock was not purchased by the United States Treasury and later sold at a $9 billion dollar loss.

That was GM.

Ford borrowed $5.9 billion from a government program available to all automakers to help build electric vehicles.

GM did not do this as GM was not financially capable of paying it back, ever. Hence the reason GM took the TARP money, AKA bailout.

Are you sure it was a standard model f250? I have seen several lifted/exhaust package trucks on dealer lots.

If it was a regular package I would let the dealer know when you eventually buy a truck why you didn’t buy one from them.

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
It doesn't have any bearing. I am just tired of hearing " screw GM, they took bail out money" whenever a question is asked about a GM product. Consider it a PSA

Ford did take bailout money, they all did. It's not a secret

No they didn’t. Don’t you sell Chebbies for a living?

quote:

It doesn't have any bearing. I am just tired of hearing " screw GM, they took bail out money" whenever a question is asked about a GM product.

I can understand that you work for GM, and it's difficult to overcome, but telling people FORD did isn't true, and in many peoples minds they know FORD didn't take those funds, so be careful who you say that to, not everyone is uneducated in that subject, even though it's been quite a while.

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Ford did take bailout money, they all did. It's not a secret

Actually you need to be specific when you make this claim, when bailouts are mentioned its about TARP. TARP FUNDs = BAILOUT MONEY, remember that, TARP funds were the bailout funds.

When it comes to the Obama Era TARP money, those funds given to automakers in the recession so that they wouldn't have to claim bankruptcy, close, and put union members on the unemployment line, only GM and Chrysler took those funds. Ford took zero TARP Obama bail out money as Fords management saw the coming economy and had already cut expenses and were cash flush.

When GM fans say Ford took bailout money they are referencing the loans the Federal government made as incentives in 2009 to all US Auto manufacturing to improve EPA and efficiency of automobiles, every manufacturing company participated. These loans were not part of the bailout funds (TARP). Why did GM< Ford and Mopar participate, simple the government was forcing new rules on epa, electrics, efficiency and these low interest loans were the incentive to GM, Chrysler (FIAT) and Ford to tool up to meet the new CAFE and electric car demands the government was planning.

When it comes to pure TARP (Bailout money) only GM and Chrysler participated in using taxpayer (TARP) money to stay alive.

Repercussions from taking TARP Bailout was GM's CEO was canned and replaced by the Obama Administrations appointee, and the government forced Chrysler to sell to a foreign company, FIAT. Imagine that, a US Government forcing the sale of a USA company to a foreign company. Nonetheless, Ford faced no repercussions of government meddling in senior staff or forced sales because they took zero bailout TARP funds.

Fact is FORD took zero TARP Bailout money, none....

You're right, it was TALF bail out money. Still owed

Yes I sell Chevy's and Ford took bailout money

It's all about supply and demand.

I was talking to a guy who sells Mercedes the other day. We were talking about the G63 AMG (the super high-end most expensive SUV Mercedes makes).

You can order one at MSRP but the expected wait is 2 years.

Dealers are selling new ones the day they get to the lot for $50k over MSRP.

Used ones are selling over new MSRP.

There are thousands (20,000 or more) F250's sitting in Louisville, fresh off the assembly line, waiting for silcon chips of some kind. This is why you're seeing those markups. The end.

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
You're right, it was TALF bail out money. Still owed

Yes I sell Chevy's and Ford took bailout money

TALF wasn't Obama bailout money.

Link

^^^Precisely. A loan isn’t a bailout. In the real world anyways…

Just want the facts to be put out here.... anyone inclined to learn the truth now knows a bit more about it...

Back to the OP, prices are being held firm, dealers are making more money this year than ever in the history of the industry.

Rebates, discounts, advertising incentives all the past tools are gone for the most part.

If you want a hot vehicle, be prepared to pay, if Ford, GM and Fiat are smart they will never return to stacking lots with vehicles again, production will lag behind demand, keeping prices up, profits up an costs down.

This could be the way to break the rebate cycle and get out of that game. Problem is Union agreements for labor they'll just have to decide to pay off labor that they send home and make fewer vehicles.

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I am just tired of hearing " screw GM, they took bail out money" whenever a question is asked about a GM product.

Well I'm tired of GM fanboys claiming Ford took bailout money when they didn't. They took a dept of Energy loan.

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Yes I sell Chevy's

Well says enough for me. You have zero credibility on the subject in my opinion.

I do love though that you state:

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and Ford took bailout money

Yet you provide zero evidence of such. A department of energy loan isn't bail out money.

They stopped being pickup trucks quite some time ago. Now, they're just obscenely overpriced fashion statements. One of these yahoos paying 60,000 or more for a pickup truck would lose their shit if they got a scratch in the bed of their bling-bling toy.

I wouldn't give anywhere near list for a new pickup, and I damn sure wouldn't pay one single penny over the sticker under any circumstances. They're just fancy toys for people with more money than sense.

quote:

Originally posted by UTsig:
We're waiting to see the new Bronco and happened to be near the dealer. We drove up and there were almost no trucks on the lot, normally this dealer, Ram and Ford, is loaded.

I bought a Ford Bronco Sport Outer Banks a few months ago, called on a Wednesday to make an appointment and they had 6 of them. Went in 3 days later and they had one, fortunately the one I liked the best. Only got $500 off MSRP but from what I hear that's a deal as there's now a waiting list to get one.

Oh, and just got back from a 130 mile freeway trip shooting Skeet and 5 Stand and got 30 MPG at a steady 75 and 80 MPH. Not bad considering it'll do low 16's in the quarter mile.

quote:

Originally posted by TexasScrub:
I brought my '17 RAM diesel in last week for a oil change, and one of the salesman pitched that he'd give me 58K for it. Tempting, but then I'd have to buy another truck for even more $$. I only paid 52k for it.

Yeah, I'd also like to say "wait it out".

Same here. I have a ‘16 Honda Accord Touring in excellent condition and low miles. I know I would get a great price if I sold it.

But, every time I start getting tempted, I think: How am I going to get around - walk? Because there’s no way I’d pay the prices they’re asking for new cars right now.

Can't see $20,000 markup for a truck. Hell, I can't see $20,000 for a truck.

I'd rather retire.

I just wish my father was still around, so he could laugh in a salesman's face when they tell him they want twice as much as he paid for his first house, for a freaking pickup truck. He'd ask the guy how being a con man is working out for him.

It’s crazy across the board.
Had not seen a 20k markup but have seen many around 10k.

In January of 2019 we bought my wife’s Suburban a certified preowned 2015 Suburban LTZ full loaded with 55k miles and brand new 22” wheels and tires off a 2019 model the guy traded for as he wanted the old wheels.
We paid $29k out the door.
I looked at local dealer site last night. They have a 2015 LTZ just like ours but with only the 20” wheels it had 78k miles and they are asking $45,800!!!!!!!!!

They have a USED 2021 Suburban with 15k miles and they are asking $85k!!!!!!

dealers have big concerns and decisions to make regarding used vehicles. Do they stock up at auction, load the lot with premium used cars on the chance that factory shipments stop this summer or wait and see if the factory starts sending out vehicles. Choose wrong and you could lose the farm...

Right now people are not turning in lease cars, at the end of the lease now the car is worth more than the payout, and by thousands not hundreds.

Thats a big part of the used vehicle supply is franchise dealers buying back lease vehicles, the leasing dealer usually gets first dibs, then it's on to the zone, then national then auction.

Not only is new supply drying up so are used vehicles, so prices on both are up, supply and demand...