I'm in the downshift gently until nearly to a stop in second, then this:

quote:

I'm in neutral as I stop, wiggling to shift lever to make sure that I can safely declutch when stopped. I'm not going to sit there with the clutch pedal pushed in.

One unique "feature" of the '08 M3 is with clutch in there's background noise that sounds like a helicopter is hovering overhead. Not just mine, all of them but apparently with no ill effect in spite of widespread concerns back in '08 by new owners.

Also in that car and one other I've had to most easily engage 1st gear I need to go from neutral to 2nd, then 1st. Don't have to, but the engagement to 1st is just easier that way.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

The reason to downshift as you are decelerating is to keep the transmission synchronized with your speed. It takes a lot of experience to know what gear goes with what speed, and getting it wrong really stresses the synchros.

Bingo.
Keep the engine in the 'meat' of the powerband at all times, whether upshifting or downshifting. If you listen, you can do it on sound alone.
I've always had manual cars, and have two of them today. Only one clutch replacement due to wear in all that time (30+ years).
Clutch pedal is in only when at a lengthy stop, and shifter is in first gear once stopped.

From my old stick days, I always downshifted and watched the rpms. I truly enjoyed standard trannys...granny low, not so much.

Sciatica & my left knee confine me to automatics.

It's been so long since I have driven a stick I don't really remember what I did.

I had to replace my clutch in my 80's Supra after smoking it up in San Francisco. I was waiting in line on a steep hill to go down Lombard Street that a gal I was dating wanted to see.

So I ended up replacing the clutch and the girl

I have two MT cars, and have been driving MT's for 55+ years. I always downshift through second, but sometimes may skip a gear or two with a 6-speed. I select first when the car is stopped.

BMW 650 vert 6-speed
Bullitt Mustang 6-speed

I learned how to heel-and-toe so I could "do both". I toe the brake right away with moderate pressure, then smoothly downshift through all the gears. I even learned to double-declutch so I could downshift into 1st past the synchro-lock or whatever it is that normally keeps you from downshifting into 1st gear.

I sort of learned old school, and in the old days it was necessary to add engine friction to deceleration as brake technology at the time was not as advanced as it is today. Probably not as critical now, but as others have mentioned I feel it is just safer to keep the engine engaged.

Down shift absolutely

If your in neutral you have lost all real control over the vehicle if something happens you need to react quickly to

Never coast with the clutch depressed. It's a bad practice.

I grew up driving manual transmissions and (was trained and) drove them exclusively in the police for the first 15 years of my career. Change down through the gear box when coming to a halt as far as second gear, then shift into 1st when you are at a full stop. The car should be in the correct gear for whatever road maneuver you are currently performing, in case you need to accelerate out of danger.

quote:

Originally posted by Beancooker:
Downshift as you described. You should never be “coasting” a vehicle.

^ This.

As I have one of each I get all the practice I need.

Well Chuck, it looks like you're getting advice from both sides - to downshift or not to downshift.

It's interesting reading through the comments how some adherents of downshifting feel it necessary to label not downshifting and, by association those who do so, as stupid and dangerous when it's just a different driving strategy that has worked for many people for many years.

My advice is try both strategies and compare them in like circumstances to see which work best for you and your particular vehicle. From your past posts, Chuck, it's evident you have a goodly amount of common sense so you'll figure the style for you - perhaps it might be a hybrid of the two?

Either way, and barring stop-and-go traffic, driving a man. trans. is fun from a personal-vehicle perspective.

Brakes are easier to replace than a clutch, slave cylinder, throwout bearing, engine etc.

I slow down, shift to neutral without the clutch then finish braking.

I use both depending on the situation

quote:

Originally posted by marksman41:
Well Chuck, it looks like you're getting advice from both sides - to downshift or not to downshift.

It's interesting reading through the comments how some adherents of downshifting feel it necessary to label not downshifting and, by association those who do so, as stupid and dangerous when it's just a different driving strategy that has worked for many people for many years.

My advice is try both strategies and compare them in like circumstances to see which work best for you and your particular vehicle. From your past posts, Chuck, it's evident you have a goodly amount of common sense so you'll figure the style for you - perhaps it might be a hybrid of the two?

Either way, and barring stop-and-go traffic, driving a man. trans. is fun from a personal-vehicle perspective.

I go back to my comment, above. If taught how to drive a manual properly, you'll not have clutch problems, as a rule. As sigcrazy7 said, the throwout bearing is what usually needs replacing, and that's due to riding the clutch.

I'm not quite the 1.5 million clutch miles that Sigcrazy7 is, but I'm at least half a million.

Only clutch I've had to replace was a 1982 VW Rabbit because a spring broke.

I'll downshift until about to stop, then take out of gear until it's time to go. Usually. Sometimes if I'm going slow/in traffic I'll knock it out of gear and roll using the brakes.

Depends.

But I make it a point to avoid using the clutch any more than necessary, sometimes downshifting without clutching, always trying to avoid coasting with the clutch in or just sitting there holding it down.

It's worked out so far. I've always had at least one manual transmission in the garage as a daily driver. Which creates entertaining situations when I have to emergency brake at work in my automatic transmission vehicle and I go for the clutch in mid-brain

Off topic.

I really enjoy driving a manual for the experience of "full control" of the car. But with stop & go traffic in Alpharetta / Atlanta, GA. Unless I buy some sort of "performance vehicle". No way I'll ever get a manual again. Trying to drive GA-400 in rush hour with a manual is akin to tap dancing for a hour or two.

quote:

I don't use the engine as a brake for everyday driving. Mountains and other like instances are a different story.

This for me. I will add, if I'm driving aggresivelly, e.g. taking a corner and coming out fast or something similar, I will down shift while keeping the clutch in. This keeps better control of the vehicle should something happen and I can come out of the corner faster as I'm already in the correct gear.

But if I'm coming up to a red light on my way for groceries, I'm in neutral and coasting up to the light. If anyone thinks that's unsafe, I'm good with living my life on the edge I guess. If folks have to downshift with the clutch in because they can't figure out what gear to shift in by the feel and sound of the car, well, one could argue you're not a good enough manual driver to be safely driving one.

I will add, that while I don't do it, my mom taught me that the car should actually be in gear while stopped. Her reasoning was that if you get rear ended while in neutral and your foot slips off the brake, you can be pushed out into the intersection. Made sense, but after about two weeks of driving, that got abandoned.

I didn’t agree with it, but the drivers training I did in the UK said you needed to decelerate in whatever gear you were in, then depress the clutch when the engine slowed to idle. You get some engine braking initially and you are still in a gear. It might be a good approach For those who can’t match revs, but I’ll take down shifting every time.

quote:

Originally posted by fpuhan:
I go back to my comment, above. If taught how to drive a manual properly, you'll not have clutch problems, as a rule. As sigcrazy7 said, the throwout bearing is what usually needs replacing, and that's due to riding the clutch.

Thus my point of not downshifting is neither bad nor good, just different as I, and other members who have posted, have not experienced clutch problems with that style of driving.

Separately, I don't understand the point about riding the clutch because in re-reading the thread I didn't read of anyone that advocated doing so. Have I missed something in a previous post?

Unless driving in mountains, or places like SF, or aggressive driving thru winding roads, I always coast down to a stop with clutch in. Once stopped, I am usually in neutral, clutch out. Been doing this since 1989.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
It's worked out so far. I've always had at least one manual transmission in the garage as a daily driver. Which creates entertaining situations when I have to emergency brake at work in my automatic transmission vehicle and I go for the clutch in mid-brain

Or reaching for the stick to change gears while the left foot goes for the clutch and (hopefully) remembering you're driving the automatic transmission.

Hitting the large brake pedal and lurching forward against the seat belt while almost breaking the detent on the auto. shift lever was quite the unpleasant adrenaline rush. Thankfully there were no accidents or injury and the only damage was to my calm and pride.