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| No More Mr. Nice Guy |
Lots of thing about flying make no sense, yet are true. Just the fact that an airplane flies seems illogical. Air is so light and thin, airplanes so heavy. The way a magnetic compass (a what?) acts during turns makes no sense. Accelerate North etc. Icing being worse on thinner airfoils is counter-intuitive. Turbine engines being more efficient at higher RPM makes no logical sense. Slick tires work best even on wet or snow covered runways. Hydroplaning speed depends only on tire pressure. It has nothing to do with weight, tire width, etc. At any moment in time, approximately 1 million humans are flying. | |||
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Get Off My Lawn |
View it full screen mode. https://x.com/matthewcappucci/...822577327653365?s=46 "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| Get Off My Lawn |
Looks like the FAA has grounded the MD-11 for now while inspections are done. https://www.aerotime.aero/arti...leet-after-ups-crash  "I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965 | |||
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| Member |
Good video on the crash and current results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAdF4_VRQKw | |||
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| Member |
Let me save you guys some time. That video is garbage. Bad graphics with minimal information that wasn’t already available. Plus the narrator loves to say things like that’s not opinion it’s facts! Just for additional context, the video producer chose to use footage from that Denzel Washington movie where he is the coked up pilot who saves the day. Seriously. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Dang, that’s kinda bold. Friends were involved in a recent flight to FL357 in a Carbon Cub and Paulo worried about a bunch of stuff that prolly wasn’t part of your planning for your trip to FL320 (parachute, bailout bottle, autopilot on a flight plan to hopefully bring one back if they pass out, etc). Of course, I’ll bet that it didn’t take you 62 minutes to get there in a 56TC. I’ll bet with the combustion heater the 56TC cabin was warmer too. Yeah. I think the expression is that it’s better to be lucky than good, but I’d guess your friend had to be both. | |||
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| Member |
Not an aeronautical engineer, so I may be way off base but: How long can a carrier subject a fully loaded 34 year old cargo plane to daily takeoffs and landings before its considered too old to continue in service? Of course the USAF is still flying the B52, but I think it has been almost fully rebuilt and is subject to an intensive maintenance program. So... SF pilots, would you be comfortable flogging a fully fueled and loaded MD-11 all over the world on a regular basis? End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| Member |
Airplanes in theory have a virtually unlimited airframe life, provided of course maintenance/inspections are up to date and they tend to get more complicated (and expensive) with age. Some manufacturers do assign a time and/or cycle limit to certain models, at which point they essentially “expire” and are sent to the scrapyard. One thing long haul aircraft like the MD11 can benefit from is the fact that longer legs means less cycles per flight hour. It’s generally cycles that produce more wear and tear especially for the fuselage because every pressurization expands and contracts the structure like a balloon, not to the same degree of course but it’s those repeated stretches that weaken metal and joints over time. My company flies 737s of which the oldest are just over 20 years. I’d hazard a guess that most if not all of them have more cycles than the MD11s still in service even though the MDs are older. If you look close at the fuselage of any relatively older 737 you’ll see one (or more) “boilerplate” patches where they found signs of fatigue and beefed up the structure surrounding the weak spot. Doesn’t exactly give you the warm fuzzies but the track record speaks for itself. It’s something you just don’t really think about especially considering while it may be cliche it’s still many times safer to fly commercially than traverse the Mad Max roads on the way to and from the airport. Mongo only pawn in game of life... | |||
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| Member |
Many folks also think they're experts in education because they went to school. If I could only communicate to folks that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data..." Back to the original topic, I don't speculate on these things because 1) I don't know all the facts, and 2) I tell my students to let the process play out instead of jumping to conclusions. It only seems fair that I practice what I preach. (Note that I am speaking only for myself. I appreciate the guys who know more than I do chiming in.) | |||
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We Are...MARSHALL |
As a non-pilot I appreciate the explanations and information shared by members with experience in aviation. Unfortunately this information is typically shared in times of tragedy. Having a little knowledge of the area surrounding the airport I believe we should all be thankful the loss of life wasn’t greater while remembering those who perished. May God comfort their loved ones. Build a man a fire and keep him warm for a night, set a man on fire and keep him warm the rest of his life. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
THEY IS COMPSTITUTIONAL SCHOLARS!! | |||
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| Member |
Don't forget about all the boat, ship and maritime experts  _____________________________ Off finding Galt's Gulch | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
YARGH!!  | |||
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Shall Not Be Infringed |
____________________________________________________________ If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !! Trump 47....Making America Great Again! "May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20 Live Free or Die! | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
Amazing photos of the engine detaching after the plane started to rotate off the runway, no way back.... https://x.com/NTSB_Newsroom/st.../1991538483048116353 | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
Looks like the engine did not suddenly lose power and fall off. | |||
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Age Quod Agis |
Appears to be similar to an earlier MD-11 crash which resulted in an airworthiness directive regarding the pylon mounting pins where the rear pin (or mount) failed, and the engine, at thrust, rotated around the front pins, over the top of the wing, detached, and tore the shit out of the wing as it exited. Diagram of mounting pins; you can see where the failure of the rear mount will cause an upward rotation around the front mount.  "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
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Member |
Similar to AA 191? Engine detached & rolled over the top of the wing. The Enemy's gate is down. | |||
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| Member |
From those pictures it looks like the engine departed right in the middle of rotation and liftoff. Probably the worst time in the takeoff segment for the engine to fail. Your nose is 10-12 degrees up and you quickly lose the runway centerline to help with directional control from the asymmetric thrust after the loss of power on one side. Normally in the simulator you get the engine failure right after V1 (decision speed) because they are wanting you to control the yaw while on the ground and throughout the rotation and climb. VR (rotate speed) is again, usually, only a couple knots different, but in some cases there is a significant spread, depending on weight, temperature, elevation, runway length and even obstacle clearance issues on the departure. This crew was handed a massive shit sandwich right at the worst time, and flew it as best they could until the bitter end. Tragic event all around. ----------------------------------------------------------------------Roy is not my real name. | |||
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Member |
It's been a very long time, but Iseem to recall AA using an unapproved maintenance procedure to raise and hold the engine in position while the pylon pins were inserted. Maybe a forklift was used? Anyway, the unauthorized procedure was either primary or contributing fault of AA 191 nearly 50 years ago. | |||
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