Another vote for Nokian. I'm currently running the Rotiiva AT tires on my 4Runner.

quote:

4WD /= 4WStop

This ends lesson #1

Bad lesson. A true four wheel drive will have better stopping ability than a two wheel drive. Add proper tires with a snow and ice rating, and it will improve it even more.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

4WD /= 4WStop

This ends lesson #1

Bad lesson. A true four wheel drive will have better stopping ability than a two wheel drive. Add proper tires with a snow and ice rating, and it will improve it even more.

Have to disagree with you sir.

As a court recognized expert in accident investigations (with extensive training to back all this up) ... the stopping ability of any vehicle on any road surface condition is the same whether it is 4wd or 2wd. However ABS does improve the stopping distance over non-ABS.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

Bad lesson. A true four wheel drive will have better stopping ability than a two wheel drive. Add proper tires with a snow and ice rating, and it will improve it even more.

I would say on average, there are significantly more trucks in the winter ditch than there are cars. Why? Because while I am carefully traversing the highway in the middle of a blizzard at 30 miles an hour, (in my Hyundai Sonata)the 4x4’s go whipping by at 50 mph. They have this belief that their four-wheel-drive makes them immune to ice patches and gives them faster stopping power - nope.

quote:

the stopping ability of any vehicle on any road surface condition is the same whether it is 4wd or 2wd

Which is simply not true when talking about snow or ice, where if one takes simple physics and vehicle design into account, knows exactly why there's a big difference.

But no need to take my word for it. Many people have proven this to be true.

quote:

Because while I am carefully traversing the highway in the middle of a blizzard at 30 miles an hour, (in my Hyundai Sonata)the 4x4’s go whipping by at 50 mph

There are a number of factors at play here, including equipment and driving ability. That said, It's not uncommon for me to drive 50 MPH in the snow without issue. Heck, they race super cars on ice and snow. I'll also add that sometimes people who are not equipped properly, and do not have the abilities, drive too slow and cause accidents.

quote:

I would say on average, there are significantly more trucks in the winter ditch than there are cars. Why?

perhaps another reason could be that more car drivers recognize their vulnerability and stay home, or take their own 4x4 in place of their commuter 2x4. Being unfamiliar with the liabilities of being able to 'go' better, and unpracticed in the 'stop' or 'turn' ice factors, they end up where they would have in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

4WD /= 4WStop

This ends lesson #1

Bad lesson. A true four wheel drive will have better stopping ability than a two wheel drive. Add proper tires with a snow and ice rating, and it will improve it even more.

We're talking about someone who has no experience driving on snow or ice. We're not talking about a vehicles capabilities.

It's an old talking point, do not have too much confidence in stopping just because you have 4wd. You will likely slide just as easy in 4wd as you will in 2wd if you don't know what you're doing.

I live in Pocono Mts, PA, I used to commute 100 mi round trip for work 5x per week, now down to 1 or 2. I currently use General Altimax Artic 12 on my 2020 Mazda 6 (current commuter car, 1 winter), Hankook Ipike on my 2014 Alitma (previous commuter, 6 winters) and Hankook Ipike on 2012 T&C van (wifey/family-outing mobile, 8 winters). All are 17 inch and un-studded. I've had no issues with hankook. General's purchased because of rebate deal too good to pass. I avoided the softer blizzak tires, because I drove many miles and the heavier van.

quote:

if you don't know what you're doing.

For those who don't know what they're doing, which is the majority of those out driving, proper tires will make the biggest difference.

I'd say regardless of how many wheel drive somebody has, the majority of vehicles I see off the road in snowy conditions have tires that are not snow/ice rated.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

the stopping ability of any vehicle on any road surface condition is the same whether it is 4wd or 2wd

Which is simply not true when talking about snow or ice, where if one takes simple physics and vehicle design into account, knows exactly why there's a big difference.

But no need to take my word for it. Many people have proven this to be true.

But it is true. In the formula for calculating the stopping distance of a vehicle the variables used are the speed of the vehicle and the coefficient of friction of the road surface ... there is no variable for whether a vehicle is 2wd or 4wd.

quote:

Originally posted by old dino:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

the stopping ability of any vehicle on any road surface condition is the same whether it is 4wd or 2wd

Which is simply not true when talking about snow or ice, where if one takes simple physics and vehicle design into account, knows exactly why there's a big difference.

But no need to take my word for it. Many people have proven this to be true.

But it is true. In the formula for calculating the stopping distance of a vehicle the variables used are the speed of the vehicle and the coefficient of friction of the road surface ... there is no variable for whether a vehicle is 2wd or 4wd.

While I believe it's less apparent in a vehicle equipped with ABS, The reason a 4WD stops faster is due to the proportioning valve not allowing all four tires to lock on a 2WD vehicle. The transfer case in a 4WD takes care of that and will lock all four tires.

quote:

The transfer case in a 4WD takes care of that and will lock all four tires.

In addition to allowing the larger and more powerful front brakes to slow down the moving drive train which also in turn equalizes the braking from front to back.

When in two wheel drive the front brake do what they're designed to, and apply more power up front than in the rear. In the snow (ABS and other electronid doodads asside) the fronts will lock or go into an ABS mode while the rears are still turning. This doesn't happen in true four wheel drive.

I could post actual videos of the difference if anybody is that interested. Same with dedicated snow tires. Plenty of videos demonstrating the vast difference between them and every day all seasons.

Thanks for the youtube insight ... but I defer to my decades of training, education and experience.

Back to the original post. I have found the Nokian Hakkapeliitta series of winter tires to be outstanding both studded and stud-less.

quote:

Originally posted by gjgalligan:
I'm old school on snow tires so take what I say with a grain of salt.
For out in the country of DEEP snow the old style bias ply narrow tire is much better the the wide tires they sell these days.
A narrow tire will cut through snow to grip the ground much easier then a wide tire.

Narrow does work better in the snow and on hard-pan. The smaller footprint equates to more weight psi on the ground, just like adding the suggested weight in the back (although I add mine to the front of the bed to help with braking too). You may have to adjust aspect ratio so you can maintain the same diameter with a narrower tread but that is something I would consider. My old F250 sticker tire size is LT265/75-16 but in the winter I run LT235/85-16 to plow with.

Also take a look at the Autosock ...

https://autosock.us/

... alternative to snow chains.

We first got the Autosock for my daugther's 2015 VW Golf for driving back and forth over the pass in Washington State when chains are required. No clearance for metal chains. The Autosock is recognized as chains in Washington.

Had to use them once and she said a blessing as very easy on and off and worked well.

Now we have the Autosock for my wife's Subaru Forester and my 2wd Ford Ranger.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
Get whatever tire suits you but snowtires wont be his issue.

4WD /= 4WStop

This ends lesson #1

LOL !! Agree 100% !! I was raised in S.Dak and now live in Idaho. My advice to anyone driving in snow. "All Season " doesn't mean snow. 4 wheel drive is better than 2 wheel drive but not by much. You still can't turn or stop any better. When you're stuck in a 4 wheel drive you're really stuck ! Buy good quality snow tires, have them siped, put them on some plain jane wheels ( they will rust). This guy lives in Minn., so I can't recommend studded tires but if your state allows them , they are the way to go ! Once he gets to Minn. , buy about 300 # of sand.....someone ( fund raiser or lumberyard ) will be selling them in very heavy duty sacks for not much money. ( don't use salt !)Lower your tire pressure . 40 psi will give you good mileage but 30 psi gives better traction. Drive slower....speed is your enemy.

I'm sure that there will be other folks who disagree....everyone has their own opinion.

Edit: that Autosock looks interesting. I hate using chains.

My number one choice for a winter snow/ice tire is Hakkapeliitta from Nokian. They are like magic. In a light pickup application, the LT3 is the correct model. Double down on Todd's good advice of having a second set of wheels for winter. When I finish wearing out my current set, I'll be getting these. I have the passenger car version on my AWD Fusion. They grab the road like its dry pavement and handle panic stops and starts at ice-covered intersections so well you have to worry about others slamming into you.

Right now I have the old standard in Alaska which was the General Grabber Arctic LT Studded. It was the only option available in a 20" wheel when I bought them 6 years ago. They've handled very challenging conditions quite well in those 6 years. I'll likely run them one more year as the studs are still all there and grabbing. I don't drive a lot, but when I do it tends to be a pretty extreme trip in the winter.

I have a set of unstudded Nokians on my Bronco, and they did quite well, but nothing beats a studded tire on windy highways with glare ice.

I too have dedicated wheels for our winter tires.

Used studded winter tires for years here in Washington State driving a lot over the pass and across eastern Washington during the winter.

Come July 2025 studded tires will no longer be legal in Washington. Until then, you can still get studded tires but there is a $100 surcharge on each studded tire you buy.

Come 2025 it will be time for new winter tires so will more than likely go with the Nokian.

Studs are not legal here. Winter tires are great any will be better than all season. Keep your summer tires as it does get hot in the summer, well MN hot anyway.

NH here. Ski a bit.
Blizzaks are Top Notch!

Defintitley run SNOWS not all season even on 4WD.