So there are probably a lot of PD here that can answer this question -

do people who have a long history of drug usage (cocaine, heroine, meth..anything stronger than weed) ... are their brains just fried??? Like, they lost the ability to sense pain?

I know that when someone is high, they are not rational and they don't feel pain, they are not stopped by a couple of bullets. But if they use drugs long term, aren't their brain receptors permanently fried?!?!?! Even if they haven't taken anything, their personalities are all F*cked up and loss of pain receptors?

I’d suggest that cops aren’t neuroscientists, with many suffering just as “regular” people w/ addiction. Alcohol is just as prevalent if not more innocuous/pernicious.

Addiction is fairly complicated topic and their effects are widely varied across the population… Just like everything else.

You ever see “wet brain”?

What are you trying to figure out?

What is your actual question here? We don’t pay law enforcement to be mental health professionals.

Yes.

In my experience, the pathways in the brain are permanently damaged by extensive long term drug use. Even when serious drug users are not high, they act in a similar manner. Most noticeable with methamphetamine, but it applies to others as well.

I don't think it necessarily extends to increased pain tolerance when not actively under the influence, but it certainly extends to affecting their personality and behavior even when they're not high.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Yes. Around here, we call it "perma-tweak".

The pathways in the brain are permanently damaged. Even when they're not high, they act strange.

I don't think it extends to pain tolerance when not under the influence, but it certainly extends to personality and behavior.

I concur. My experience is consistent with Rogue's comments. I don't know the clinical answer, but from what I've seen long-term drug use can cause clearly evident personality and behavioral changes, even when the person is not under the influence.

So for those of you thinking that the brain is permanently fried…

Have you ever met someone in recovery?

Plenty. And I know some who have had success. And others who've we've had to bring back with narcan after or during their "recovery".

I'm not saying that every drug user experiences the alterations described above, but I know of plenty of severe cases locally where they definitely have.

The factors that enter into long term brain damage are the age of the individual, the type of drug used their overall health, and the length of time they used the drug.
Huffers of gasoline,spray paint etc. are often in pretty sad shape even if they quit. On the other hand I have seen plenty of people in recovery who have no significant problems.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Huffers of gasoline,spray paint etc. are often in pretty sad shape even if they quit.

Definitely. I was just coming back to say that.

While it's not one of the traditional "hard drugs" that people think of, huffing has the fastest and most dramatic onset of permanent behavioral changes in my experience, because each time they huff, they're inducing brain damage. It doesn't take long for the cumulative brain damage to manifest in noticeable cognitive and behavioral issues.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
age of the individual

Definitely plays a part too. The brain doesn't finish fully developing until the early 20s, so substance abuse prior to that can have a more dramatic effect in shaping permanent brain changes and related behavior.

60+ year weed user, I can’t remember squat, I like it that way.

Now, todays ‘news’….Biden’s border trip to address the ‘crisis ran out of time’ to discuss the very meeting they were supposed to have. This coming from a burnout! F*ing ridiculous waste of everything!

Straight political B/S.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bean:
So there are probably a lot of PD here that can answer this question

Ok, now that I'm not trying to hussle my son off to school, I can actually put a little thought into this.

By asking for the opinions of cops on drug addicts, you're asking for the opinions of people who deal with criminals and people who fuck up. You're not asking for the opinions of mental health professionals, you're not asking for the opinions of people who work in addiction treatment, you're not asking for the opinions of people who have dealt with drug addiction long term.

So while yes, there are a lot of LEO's here who can answer that question, their answers aren't the whole picture, and they can only relate their experience. In short, what you're asking for here is essentially confirmation bias.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bean:
do people who have a long history of drug usage (cocaine, heroine, meth..anything stronger than weed) ... are their brains just fried??? Like, they lost the ability to sense pain?

I was never into meth, cocaine, heroin et al. However, I know, and work with many who did lots of all of the above and more for years. No, you don't lose your ability to sense pain. If anything, on some of those drugs, you feel lots of pain all the time.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bean:
I know that when someone is high, they are not rational and they don't feel pain, they are not stopped by a couple of bullets. But if they use drugs long term, aren't their brain receptors permanently fried?!?!?! Even if they haven't taken anything, their personalities are all F*cked up and loss of pain receptors?

I personally know a recovered addict who got shot by the Seattle PD while high on a goofball - an IV shot of meth and heroin mixed. He told me the amount, but I didn't have any frame of reference so it meant nothing, but the clean heroin junkie sitting with us raised his eyebrows and said "whoooaaaa..." so it was undoubtedly a very high dose. It was one round, directly in the center of his chest, and the surgeons said the bullet missed his heart by only a couple inches. Gnarly scar. I don't know what handgun round it was, but this was back in 2017 or so, so someone could probably figure it out. Anyways, he doesn't remember anything after getting shot, but it basically stopped him right there, and he is a very big dude. Six foot eight or so, around 300lbs, built like wedge with no fat on him. I know there's stories out there of people being wired on PCP taking all kinds of hits, but physiology is a thing, and if you disrupt the heart or the central nervous system, people go down. We talk about it all the time here when people flop their dicks on the table about calibers - it's shot placement that matters.

Now, while there are some permanent physiological changes to the way the brain works (new neural pathways and the changing of how some receptors work), the term "fried" is a bit... off. While some people undoubtedly get there, that and "burnout" have become a catch-all terms for any kind or degree of mental issues stemming from drug use. It's at the very least innocent/ignorant, if not a bit pejorative. As mentioned, there are some drugs people can do long-term that do tremendous damage to the brain. However, I know one individual who, aside from coming off as fairly nerdy/geeky, you'd never guess in a million years that he used to smoke crack, shoot dope and drink a fifth of whiskey a day. All in the same sitting, for years. Smart guy, well-spoken.

Now, your average street clown having a raging argument with someone who isn't there makes an impression on people who don't have any other experience with that, and I think that's what a fair bit of this thread already is, and will continue to be. Just know there's a lot more to it than that. Remember, while people do choose to do drugs, nobody chooses to be an addict.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Huffers of gasoline,spray paint etc. are often in pretty sad shape even if they quit.

Definitely. I was just coming back to say that.

While it's not one of the traditional "hard drugs" that people think of, huffing has the fastest and most dramatic onset of permanent behavioral changes in my experience, because each time they huff, they're inducing brain damage. It doesn't take long for the cumulative brain damage to manifest in noticeable cognitive and behavioral issues.

Uggg... huffing.
The kids in native villages in Alaska huff off off their local fuel supplies. Meet some of the adults and you see the results of bad decisions in their youth with poor comprehension and logic progression. This isn't to isolate native Alaskan villages, only to point out a small concentrated community where low-end sources to get a high is common.

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:
60+ year weed user, I can’t remember squat, I like it that way.

Now, todays ‘news’….Biden’s border trip to address the ‘crisis ran out of time’ to discuss the very meeting they were supposed to have. This coming from a burnout! F*ing ridiculous waste of everything!

Straight political B/S.

*sigh*

How many fracking times does the boss have to tell membership NO POLITICS IN APOLITICAL THREADS?!?!

Well, to be fair he did say he's been smoking weed for 60+ years and can't remember anything...

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
How many fracking times does the boss have to tell...

Wait... [inhale big rip from the bong] What...? [exhale big plume of smoke]

Don't harsh my buzz, bro.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by recoatlift:
60+ year weed user, I can’t remember squat, I like it that way.

Now, todays ‘news’….Biden’s border trip to address the ‘crisis ran out of time’ to discuss the very meeting they were supposed to have. This coming from a burnout! F*ing ridiculous waste of everything!

Straight political B/S.

*sigh*

How many fracking times does the boss have to tell membership NO POLITICS IN APOLITICAL THREADS?!?!

Stop harshing my mellow MAN!

I’ve worked with plenty of recovered addicts in my day and lemme tell ya, those people have obviously experienced some long term negative effects.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Well, to be fair he did say he's been smoking weed for 60+ years and can't remember anything...

He should get a hall pass on this one

quote:

Originally posted by Leemur:
I’ve worked with plenty of recovered addicts in my day and lemme tell ya, those people have obviously experienced some long term negative effects.

Some. Not all.


Of course, I could say that about any collection of people.

I think it depends a lot on which drugs they used. With cocaine, problem might be minimal. Marijuana, they have memory problems. Meth users, their brains are permanently altered.

Some of this has to do with pleasure pathways in the brain, but I forget the details.