The bible warns us in many place to beware of false churches and false Christianity.

To list a few:

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Romans 16:17-18
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.

I'd be happier if the churches in my area hadn't become liberal political machines.

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Originally posted by tatortodd:
<<snip>>
One of my pastor friends shared some of the nonsense that church growth consultants have suggested <<snip>> for the worship band on stage hire professional musicians regardless of whether or not they're actually Christian as it's more important to sound good, etc.

I spent 20 years on-stage playing bass in the worship band of two different churches. We never even dreamed to having "professional musicians", and all of those who did play did so for free... always, and both churches required band members to be church members in good standing.

I don't know of any churches currently who pay their musicians, but if I were to find out, they would be on my "do not attend" list!

We pay a small stipend to the organist, but it doesn’t seem like enough to motivate her to come for every service.

Both my grandmothers were organists in their churches - and both had organs at their home.

Not sure how much it costs to maintain an organ, but it might be for that.

The "performance" part of church is something that has never appealed to me. Maybe it's because I spent my "growing up" years as the son of missionary parents who were working to start a church overseas...and for a long time our "Church" met in our kitchen. But the production, liturgy, and drama of a "service" has just never been important to me.

Our current church that we have attended for the past 13 years has about 80-120 people on a given Sunday. Just by the nature of being small, everybody does something. My wife manages the children's programs, my BIL is the youth leader, and my oldest son helps run sound. Our Elders are long-standing members who I've known and worked with outside the church before we ever started going there, and our pastor is in his mid-40s and has been at the church almost 20 years. The worship team is made up of anybody in the church who wants to be a part of it...it's far from professional quality, but they're making a joyful noise.

I honestly don't go for the "service". Because of my work schedule, I miss every other week anyway, and I'll admit to often dozing off through the sermon, especially when I was working nights. I really enjoy the "Sunday School" hour before the main service. It's typically a small group of 5-10 people who get together to do more of an in-depth study of a book or passage of scripture. Because of the setting and format, it's a lot more interactive than a "service", and we can ask questions and discuss what we're learning. My pastor is an excellent teacher and does a great job of prepping info on the original Greek or Hebrew terms the passage, as well as the historical and Biblical context. I have a lot more "a-ha!" moments where ideas "click" in Sunday School than I do in the service.

I also go for the fellowship with others, particularly the older men of the church who I respect and trust. I'm not one for big groups or big events (they're always inviting me, but even if I don't have a work conflict, it's just not my thing), but I enjoy talking with many of those guys one-on-one, and we typically get together for lunch every other week or so. It's good to be a part of the Church (capital "C") "family", but the production and building of the church (little "c") really mean very little to me.

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Originally posted by bronicabill:

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
<<snip>>
One of my pastor friends shared some of the nonsense that church growth consultants have suggested <<snip>> for the worship band on stage hire professional musicians regardless of whether or not they're actually Christian as it's more important to sound good, etc.

I spent 20 years on-stage playing bass in the worship band of two different churches. We never even dreamed to having "professional musicians", and all of those who did play did so for free... always, and both churches required band members to be church members in good standing.

I don't know of any churches currently who pay their musicians, but if I were to find out, they would be on my "do not attend" list!

Not sure if they're paid, but the church we used to attend [very large, well known Houston area church] had a 'published' [not sure what the proper word is] band for their worship team.

Church we attend now has a smaller group, just church members, that I'm aware of. We've only been going since December so I don't know the details there. But, it's a much simpler setup & less of a 'show' than what were attending before.

I am not a fan of anything that resembles a performance when meeting for worship. We are there first and foremost to worship God. I am not there to be entertained and by the same token, nobody should be there to entertain me. Our hearts and our minds should be focused upon our Lord during worship. I am not saying that playing an instrument in the act of worship is wrong, but I do think it it can easily become a distraction for some.

Like 92fstech, I also get a lot of Sunday School/Bible Study. I get the most learning from those times, and I too appreciate a good study and discussion with my brother and sisters in Christ.

The Church is a gift from God. That family is a blessing in that we edify and teach one another. We support one another, and we pray for each other. None of us are perfect, but together we are better and stronger. We need each other in the fight against the evil one who is constantly looking to destroy. There are definite reasons why we are commanded not to forsake the assembly.

I will never forget the story my wife told me when she visited her uncle in Charleston, SC

This guy is an ultra-liberal, crunchy college professor type there so it's no surprise this happened.

She went to his "church" and it was all this super-liberal feel-good nonsense that didn't even feel like a Christian church to her. As she was leaving, it dawned on her that they NEVER spoke the name "Jesus" or "Christ" even once the entire service. I fear this type of church is very prevalent and was warned about 2,000 years ago by Paul the Apostle.

quote:

The Church is a gift from God. That family is a blessing in that we edify and teach one another. We support one another, and we pray for each other. None of us are perfect, but together we are better and stronger. We need each other in the fight against the evil one who is constantly looking to destroy. There are definite reasons why we are commanded not to forsake the assembly.

I agree.

Of course, you don't have to "assemble" or go to a church in order to pray. But I believe the structure of the mass is good and helpful. I also believe the community aspect of being part of a group and meeting in person is important.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
<<snip>> I really enjoy the "Sunday School" hour before the main service. It's typically a small group of 5-10 people who get together to do more of an in-depth study of a book or passage of scripture. Because of the setting and format, it's a lot more interactive than a "service", and we can ask questions and discuss what we're learning. <<snip>>

The past two churches I've been a part of did both a "Sunday school" before morning services, and "small groups" on Sunday evening in lieu of an evening service. The small groups meet in individual homes and is usually capped at around 15 regular members before the group "grows" another group; some exceptions are made for size, but typically anything larger than 18-20 people is just too much for the average home to accommodate. My wife and I hosted a group for several years in our home, and it was the best part of our Church body!

We haven't been in church lately following the COVID scamdemic, and due to depression following the loss of my brother. It's past time to go back!!!

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
<<snip>> I really enjoy the "Sunday School" hour before the main service. It's typically a small group of 5-10 people who get together to do more of an in-depth study of a book or passage of scripture. Because of the setting and format, it's a lot more interactive than a "service", and we can ask questions and discuss what we're learning. <<snip>>

The past two churches I've been a part of did both a "Sunday school" before morning services, and "small groups" on Sunday evening in lieu of an evening service. The small groups meet in individual homes and is usually capped at around 15 regular members before the group "grows" another group; some exceptions are made for size, but typically anything larger than 18-20 people is just too much for the average home to accommodate. My wife and I hosted a group for several years in our home, and it was the best part of our Church body!

We haven't been in church lately following the COVID scamdemic, and due to depression following the loss of my brother. It's past time to go back!!!

Ours does the evening 'house church' small group as well, typically focused on that morning's message.
We've enjoyed it once we found a group that we clicked with.

I have been drawn very strongly to Christ, especially since I've become a father.

We went to a pretty old-school catholic church in Florida when we visited last Christmas and it was a woke, disgusting slap in the face. The sermon was communist bullshit and all of the good old folks were offended.

I feel lost, and I will continue to keep my religion to myself. I have yet to see a real church that wont fly a tranny nazi flag here.

I've given up on church, but not Jesus.

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Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
<<snip>>
I've given up on church, but not Jesus.

So sorry to hear that! Keep looking, there has to be a decent one in your area somewhere!

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We went to a pretty old-school catholic church in Florida when we visited last Christmas and it was a woke, disgusting slap in the face. The sermon was communist bullshit and all of the good old folks were offended.

That's going to vary greatly from parish to parish. We have experienced similar. That's why we live in one parish and regularly attend another.

It all depends on who the pastor/priests are and it's probably about 50/50. I'd say keep looking and ask around ... people know. The current pope is a communist and that doesn't help but the entire church isn't like that.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

The past two churches I've been a part of did both a "Sunday school" before morning services, and "small groups" on Sunday evening in lieu of an evening service. The small groups meet in individual homes and is usually capped at around 15 regular members before the group "grows" another group; some exceptions are made for size, but typically anything larger than 18-20 people is just too much for the average home to accommodate. My wife and I hosted a group for several years in our home, and it was the best part of our Church body!

Our new church (well, 2 years in now) is big on small groups and we just joined one that is all people in our same boat; parents with young children and it's working out great. We are making new friends and the kids love it and it's in many ways better than a church service of hundreds. We meet Friday nights.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Our new church (well, 2 years in now) is big on small groups and we just joined one that is all people in our same boat; parents with young children and it's working out great. We are making new friends and the kids love it and it's in many ways better than a church service of hundreds. We meet Friday nights.

I personally think that the "home groups" meetings more fully represent what the original 1st century Christian's churches were like. They met in peoples homes, ate together, and worshiped together. They didn't have the big, fancy, and EXPENSIVE buildings that current-day churches seem to revolve around!

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
Our new church (well, 2 years in now) is big on small groups and we just joined one that is all people in our same boat; parents with young children and it's working out great. We are making new friends and the kids love it and it's in many ways better than a church service of hundreds. We meet Friday nights.

I personally think that the "home groups" meetings more fully represent what the original 1st century Christian's churches were like. They met in peoples homes, ate together, and worshiped together. They didn't have the big, fancy, and EXPENSIVE buildings that current-day churches seem to revolve around!

That's the ethos of our current church, and they emphasize it a lot [but not in a pushy way].

quote:

The sermon was communist bullshit

Could it be that we confuse Christian charity with the contemporary political theory of communism? I am no biblical scholar (my wife and I are actually currently in the midst of our first cover-to-cover reading of the New Testament), but I recall having heard something to the effect of we ought to give to the poor until we're poor ourselves. Granted "the poor" were presumably something like serfs, in the time of the biblical writing; in that they were poor and had no say in the matter. However, anything that came from God or Jesus transcends timelines, and ought not be constrained to the circumstances of the time of it's recording.

I often turn to CS Lewis, in my efforts to better understand my Christian faith. He has this to say, about Christian charity.

"In the passage where the New Testament says that everyone must work, it gives a reason ‘in order that he may have something to give to those in need’. Charity - giving to the poor - is an essential part of Christian morality: in the frightening parable of the sheep and the goats it seems to be a point on which everything turns. Some people nowadays say that charity ought to be unnecessary and that instead of giving to the poor we ought to be producing a society in which there is no poor to give to. They may be quite right in saying that we ought to produce this kind of society. But if anyone thinks that, as a consequence, you can stop giving in the meantime, then he has parted company with all Christian morality."

I have been following this thread closely, as my wife and I have been struggling in no small way, to find a new church. The comments from the participants here are mirroring my own thoughts on the matter; be them for or against attending a dedicated structure.

I was raised Catholic, to the point of confirmation. I had since veered away, then back towards the Catholic church. I now find myself again moving away from it, and toward either a Protestant or non-denominational alternative. My mother and her siblings were pretty heavily involved in the Catholic church as adults (to the point of having degrees in divinity, going door-to-door collecting for the Bishop's fund, etc) but have since also ceased attendance, though they still have very strong Christian faiths. They now believe things like you are capable of baptizing your child yourself. They've been "around the block", so their consideration of what many would consider very alternative ideas has me very open-minded.

quote:

Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
We went to a pretty old-school catholic church in Florida when we visited last Christmas and it was a woke, disgusting slap in the face. The sermon was communist bullshit and all of the good old folks were offended.

Might I suggest finding a traditional Latin Mass in your area.

https://fssp.com/locations/

My local parish isn't woke at all, I have just chosen not to attend there for several reasons. Instead, I go to a TLM over in Idaho and it is beyond amazing. Give it a whirl.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by DoctorSolo:
We went to a pretty old-school catholic church in Florida when we visited last Christmas and it was a woke, disgusting slap in the face. The sermon was communist bullshit and all of the good old folks were offended.

Might I suggest finding a traditional Latin Mass in your area.

https://fssp.com/locations/

My local parish isn't woke at all, I have just chosen not to attend there for several reasons. Instead, I go to a TLM over in Idaho and it is beyond amazing. Give it a whirl.

The wife and I attend the Latin Mass as well.

The FSSP is great. So is the Institute of Christ the King , but they're smaller and have fewer parishes (they call them oratories).