I understand what you’re saying but we are supposed to attend church, as stated in Hebrews 10:25.
But these ‘modern’ churches aren’t churches at all. They are places to be entertained.

I know a lot of folks are deep in their faith. So I don’t ever want to sound insulting. And I understand that each persons relationship is what’s important.

My mother in law’s pastor says that he is a direct reflection on his congregation so he is held to a higher standard. So in a situation like this, folks need to be called out. People need to be replaced. Allowing things like this to slide and even, what seems to me anyway, to make excuses in the name of the word makes me shake my head.

As a non believer I find religion oftentimes to be cultish and hypocritical. I try to make sure I’m not being biased in that assessment but seeing stuff like this affirms my opinion. I fully understand many here won’t share my opinion and that’s totally fine, I just can’t reconcile it myself .

What was the end result? They are sticking to the argument that it’s an expression of faith?

By their very nature, all religions are exclusive, in the textbook definition of the word.

All religions are cults, but the word 'cult' has taken on a pejorative definition only, but one definition of 'cult' is "A system or community of religious worship and ritual."

Therefore, anyone viewing a religion from outside of its boundaries may be inclined to view it negatively.

Modern Christians are not cultists in the pejorative sense of the word. There are sects which take the religious texts literally and do weird things like the handling of snakes, but that's not modern Christianity.

And Christians do not have monster truck rallies and strippers in the pulpit.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Male strippers, sword swallowers- it's Dionysian in nature: paganism. It's a mockery of Christianity.

Yes, sir. Absolutely right. Pagan to the core.

This type of garbage tends to come from Word of Faith/prosperity gospel/charismatic churches that focus on the experiential and "ongoing revelations from God," rather than structured (liturgical) Biblical churches rooted in closed canon and Scriptural exegesis.

These things are happening all over the nation and it's both dangerous and heretical. I recently saw a "pastor" with a trampoline in the sanctuary doing backflips. Madness.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
I understand what you’re saying but we are supposed to attend church, as stated in Hebrews 10:25...

not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. - NIV

I'm not rebuking those who go to church at all. It's great if you do, but it doesn't say you are supposed to attend church. "Meeting together" can be anywhere, and church is but one of those meeting places.

This kind of stuff saddens me. As a Christian, I don't like the church being viewed from the outside as some kind of freak show with no regard for scriptural truth or morality. This couldn't be a less accurate representation of 99% of churches in this country, and certainly none of the ones that I've attended. For those who don't attend church, think of it through a gun-owner analogy, and how we all get lumped in with the latest idiot or criminal who does something dumb or horrific with a gun.

What does legitimately concern me is the increasing tendency by many in the church to compromise the Truth of the Gospel to accommodate changing cultural or social norms. No, most churches don't have stripper poles up front on Sunday morning, but we're becoming pretty uncomfortable calling sin "sin". Truth is Truth. It doesn't change just because society doesn't like it, or because it makes some people uncomfortable. Sometimes it makes me uncomfortable because I'm a sinner, too....and that's kind of the point!

The Bible even warns us in 1 Corinthians 1 that this is going to happen. The world isn't going to understand what we believe, or accept it...but God has given us the gift of the truth of the Gospel and it's our responsibility to share it. We don't do that by openly participating in or celebrating the debaucheries of contemporary society...we do it by holding to what we know is true, sharing it with those around us, and letting God work in their lives to bring them to understanding .

quote:

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

The Christian religion attack comes from within, which is all this crap we're talking about. Good churches go bad all the time with retirement of leadership, unqualified and changes with lay member committees, formerly good pastors being drawn into all sorts of sin and madness, you name it, in the same ways good companies go bad. If you find a good one you like that's not crazy and covers the basics of the faith, takes care of its own, doesn't let scum into its leadership or membership, isn't always looking for ways to "grow" without a good reason, that could be a good place. If you find one of those enjoy it while you can, before it goes bad, as so many do. Like the current state of American culture, people have it so good for so long they eventually go mad and get stupid for no good reason, churches included. I think these days a more "boring" type church, that is otherwise solid and covers the basics, is probably the best choice. If you want a rock concert and strippers, don't go to church for that.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
This kind of stuff saddens me.

It pisses me off, and I'm not even a Christian, though I have long said that in this forum, I am the best non-Christian friend the Christians here have.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
I understand what you’re saying but we are supposed to attend church, as stated in Hebrews 10:25...

not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. - NIV

I'm not rebuking those who go to church at all. It's great if you do, but it doesn't say you are supposed to attend church. "Meeting together" can be anywhere, and church is but one of those meeting places.

Doesn’t it somewhere also say that anywhere more two or more gather he’lol be there?

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Doesn’t it somewhere also say that anywhere more two or more gather he’lol be there?

Matthew 18:20: For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

So, we can't gather in His name anywhere else, except in church? Is that what you think Jesus meant? Please, correct me, if I misunderstood you. I think I might have.

Isaiah 5:20-24
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised

20 Ah, you who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter!
21 Ah, you who are wise in your own eyes,
and shrewd in your own sight!
22 Ah, you who are heroes in drinking wine
and valiant at mixing drink,
23 who acquit the guilty for a bribe,
and deprive the innocent of their rights!

Foreign Invasion Predicted
24 Therefore, as the tongue of fire devours the stubble,
and as dry grass sinks down in the flame,
so their root will become rotten,
and their blossom go up like dust;
for they have rejected the instruction of the Lord of hosts,
and have despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
This kind of stuff saddens me.

It pisses me off, and I'm not even a Christian, though I have long said that in this forum, I am the best non-Christian friend the Christians here have.

A friend and a good understanding.

The problem with modern Christianity is that it is so splintered as to be unrecognizable by traditional Christians in some so-called Christian churches.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Doesn’t it somewhere also say that anywhere more two or more gather he’lol be there?

Matthew 18:20: For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

So, we can't gather in His name anywhere else, except in church? Is that what you think Jesus meant? Please, correct me, if I misunderstood you. I think I might have.

Are you asking me or power surge? I’ve always understood it to mean church isn’t required. Long as people gather to worship.

I see now my post is full of autocorrect errors.

But I gotta ask, if two sword swallowing pole dancers meet, is it still worship

I kid, I kid. Yall have a good night. And remember, weirdos abound. And possibly anoint, I don’t know with this autocorrect.

quote:

I’ve always understood it to mean church isn’t required.

So, I did misunderstand you. We're on the same page. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
I understand what you’re saying but we are supposed to attend church, as stated in Hebrews 10:25...

not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. - NIV

I'm not rebuking those who go to church at all. It's great if you do, but it doesn't say you are supposed to attend church. "Meeting together" can be anywhere, and church is but one of those meeting places.

If God didn’t want us to attend church, why did the apostles Paul, Peter and other Christians like Timothy, etc start churches which are recorded in the New Testament? They were started to spread the gospel and as a place for Christians to assemble.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
If God didn’t want us to attend church, why did the apostles Paul, Peter and other Christians like Timothy, etc start churches which are recorded in the New Testament? They were started to spread the gospel and as a place for Christians to assemble.

Yes, they started churches, but did God tell them to do so? Where in the Bible does it specifically say you're supposed to attend purposed built church? Is it a requirement? No. Any place anywhere that Christians meet and worship can be a church. Restaurant, the workplace, the park, online, even prison. You can spread the gospel from anywhere. On the streets or behind your keyboard online, and people are doing this everyday .

Matthew 16:18 (KJV) - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

My interpretation is, Christ meant the church to be a concept (his teaching), not a specific building, with Peter being the foundation, the starting point to spread his gospel. It has nothing to do with a required physical building, because if you take everything he said there literally, then you have to accept that Peter was an actual rock, which he surely was not.

Bottom line to me is, we can worship anywhere. God is not going to cast you into the lake of fire for not attending "church".

I never said anything about it being necessary to go to a purpose built building. The only people I’ve ever come across that are against attending church are people who do not attend church. And I used to be one of those people.

Yet, you said, at the top of this page, "we are supposed to attend church, as stated in Hebrews 10:25". Hebrews 10:25 never stated such a thing.

I'm not against anyone attending church. More power to those who choose to do so. Personally, I don't need to, to be with God and worship Him.

Let's agree to disagree that we have different ways to worship.

A good church, has been very helpful to me.

The LCMS is dying, in Miami - Latin culture is mostly atheist/at least a large chunk of it is. (Americans tend not to think so, because many of the Latins who fled north, are Christian)

And Lutheranism is really close to basic Protestant Christianity.

I see the value in “Church” in a few ways.

A) It gives you an hour or two to disconnect and focus on faith.

B) It can help you meet others in fellowship/serves as a reminder that many different types of people are brothers in faith. (I think the social value of this is underestimated)

C) Ideally, it provides an educated, intelligent intermediary to answer questions of faith/head off issues in the Congregation/publicly speak without having to worry about reprisal. (The IRS and its threatening the tax status of churches may be one of the more dangerous of DC’s abuses.)

During one discussion in which I mentioned what a particular Biblical passage said, the disagreeing response I got was, “Find someone who can explain it to you”: I.e., it doesn’t mean what it says and its proper meaning must be explained by someone who understands it properly.

That’s what clergy and other interpreters of Scripture believe is a duty to the rest of us: Explaining what is unclear (or is claimed to be unclear). Plus of course because interpretations can and do vary so much, that’s why there are countless sects that believe and teach different things despite being based on (mostly) the same sources.

I would bet a nickel that Hebrews 10:25 has been “explained” by more than one member of the professional clergy as meaning that “assembling together” in modern times refers to being a member of a formal congregation in a place dedicated to the purpose, i.e., a church.

“Yes, but what if we’re in a Gulag, we can’t very well build a brick and mortar church there.”
“No, of course not. But we’re not in a Gulag, and this is here and now, not thousands of miles away and 2000 years ago. The Bible was given to be relevant for all peoples at all times, and the best way for us to exhort and support one another now is to come together in a setting like this.”