quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
What would Gary Coleman be in?

Over his head?

Man, I hope that some of the people who have had hours and days to think about this incident and with the benefit of most of the information now available are around if I’m ever threatened by an emergency requiring instantaneous judgment and response: They won’t waste a moment trying to decide what’s required and to spring into crisis-resolving action.

I don’t know what type of glass the room windows are in this hotel, but laminated glass of the sort used in windshields is common in commercial buildings. Shoot through that and what do we get: a small hole a bit larger than the caliber of the bullet surrounded with a bit of spalling. Making a hole large enough to easily shoot through would require a lot of shots in the proper locations, and then probably some assistance from a hammer or other object. The BG in this situation may have known that and just decided a hammer would be the thing to go to immediately so as to not alert everyone in the area with unproductive initial shots.

But I’m just speculating and am still trying to exercise some patience in awaiting further details on the incident. Hopefully someone will write a book in a few years.

And it never fails to amaze me when I see all the people who think that the proper ultimate resolution of an incident like this is to sue someone for not doing everything right during their response to a chaotic situation that has never happened before: We can’t do anything to the shooter, so let us try to bankrupt some other people. Yeah, that will make it all better.

So we don't even know for sure whether or not there was a 911 call at all, much less who called and when? Is that correct?

These particular questions ought to be super simple to determine, barring some extraordinarily rare and unrelated snafu at their 911 call center.

this was an update by the sheriff (from late 10 Oct)

https://www.reviewjournal.com/...oting-investigation/

Despite Mandalay Bay shooter Stephen Paddock’s history of high-stakes gambling, he had no known gambling debts, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Tuesday.

And, contrary to published reports, Paddock’s girlfriend, Marilou Danley, told investigators in Los Angeles she had no concerns about his mental health.

Paddock, a video poker player, checked in to Mandalay Bay on Sept. 25 — three days earlier than initially reported.

Lombardo said Paddock spent those first three days in a separate room, and the hotel provided that room free of charge for unknown reasons. Paddock spent the remaining days in the corner suite where he staged his attack, and he paid for the suite himself.

“We’ve learned that there’s a difference of comp days versus personal pay days,” Lombardo said. “We were going off the personal pay days.”

Though Paddock checked in about a week before the shooting occurred, he did not remain in Las Vegas. Authorities believe he traveled to Mesquite several times in the days leading up to Oct. 1.

Throughout his time in Las Vegas, Paddock did not interact with many people, the sheriff said, dispelling rumors the shooter had met with a prostitute for at least one night.

On at least two occasions, a bellman helped Paddock bring bags up to his 32nd-floor suite. After poring over surveillance footage, authorities have yet to spot any red flags about Paddock’s actions leading up to Oct. 1 that may have signaled his planned ambush.

The night of the shooting, there were 51 Metropolitan Police Department officers working overtime to staff the Route 91 Harvest festival. When the volleys of gunfire began hitting the crowd, those officers formed several strike teams to find and take down the suspect.

But in the first hour after shots began, the echoes of gunfire created confusion, leading to false reports of gunshots at multiple Strip locations, Lombardo said. Medics were also dispatched to several different locations because some gunshot victims were able to run from the festival to different Strip properties, then call for help.

Before Paddock sprayed bullets into the crowd, Paddock opened fire down the hallway of the 32nd floor, injuring Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos. The guard, who was not armed, was on the floor responding to a door left ajar when he heard the sound of drilling coming from Paddock’s room.

The guard was shot in the thigh, and though Paddock fired more than 200 rounds down the hall and into nearby rooms, no one else in the hotel was injured.

After the guard was shot, the guard radioed Mandalay Bay security, who then reported the shooting to police . The sheriff was cautious about giving an exact timeline, but he commended hotel staff for their response .

“You’re never going to get me to say that somebody dropped the ball,” the sheriff said. “I don’t believe that happened. I think everybody did a fantastic job.”

He also said, as part of ongoing hotel security re-evaluations, guards could begin accompanying housekeeping into rooms with views of special event venues.

Lombardo added that both Danley and the shooter’s brother, Eric Paddock, have not been cleared of wrongdoing by investigators.

He expects to release more information Friday.

OK. I see. Someone definitely called, but no details have been provided yet. That's better...

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Why do so many people have such great difficulty in speaking plainly?

Drop the convolutions and the police-speak crap and answer yes-or-no questions with freaking yes or no!

Because the victims have filed a lawsuit claiming that the hotel didn't respond in a timely manner.

In fairness, whether or not it's the right thing to do, the lawsuits are already flying and the pattern ain't nearly full yet.

I wouldn't want to be MGM's commercial insurance carrier.

The legal bills alone would buy some small African nations, and the settlement will add in several a few South American nations along with Estonia and Liechtenstein.

One other thing I don't understand from the info provided: Why does the sheriff believe that the shooter had plans to possibly escape?

The stairwell door was screwed shut and required a pry bar to open. The door to the suite was screwed shut and required an explosive breech. The door to the adjoining room was screwed shut and required an explosive breech.

I'm just a layperson, but that doesn't sound like an escape plan to me.

quote:

I'm just a layperson, but that doesn't sound like an escape plan to me.

Ya, but maybe he had a parachute...

Currently, I believe, there is no indication as to *when* all exists were barricaded.

He could have had an option to exit up until it was nearly over.

But once he'd decided all was lost, he may have sealed up his remaining option(s).

Maybe to buy time/privacy to eat his revolver and not get caught first, or something.

FWIW - based on the pictures of the broken windows, the relative size of the windows, the size of the building and the building codes for Nevada; those windows are most likely made from either an insulated glass unit of 2 pieces of 1/4" heat strengthened glass or a single piece of 3/8" heat strengthened glass. Heat strengthened glass has a break pattern similar to regular annealed glass (big shards) but is roughly twice as strong. Full tempered glass would break into thousands of little pieces. Laminated glass would show a plastic film with glass pieces clinging to it. (We use a sawzall when we have to remove lami glass after we break it)

Possibly, the inner piece of glass, if it was an insulated glass unit, was tempered glass to meet safety glazing requirements. Assuming the glass went floor to ceiling.

Having removed glass like that from test windows, I can tell you that a 16 or 20 oz hammer is not the tool for the job. A 3 lb hand sledge or a full long handle sledge is the way to go. Commercial glass, being so much thicker, is a lot tougher than the stuff you probably have in your house. (You hurricane glazed guys notwithstanding).

Ken

a new version from Mandalay

http://www.latimes.com/nation/...-20171012-story.html

“We know that shots were being fired at the festival lot at the same time as, or within 40 seconds after, the time Jesus Campos first reported that shots were fired over the radio,” the company, which owns Mandalay Bay, said in a statement.

One crucial element missing from the hotel’s statement: What time Campos was shot, as opposed to what time he reported being shot.

Las Vegas police were already in the hotel casino responding to another call, and they were “together with armed Mandalay Bay security officers in the building when Campos reported that shots were fired over the radio,” the company’s statement said. Then, "These Metro officers and armed Mandalay Bay security officers immediately responded to the 32nd floor."

Police did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the hotel’s timeline. Officials have previously said that an updated timeline would be released Friday.

***************

guess we wait till tomorrow

Thanks, KenS, for that. Any thoughts on what effects gunshots would have on those windows?

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
this was an update by the sheriff (from late 10 Oct)

https://www.reviewjournal.com/...oting-investigation/

"the hotel provided that room free of charge for unknown reasons."

That's BS. Whoever comp'd him the room knows the reasons. It shouldn't be hard to ID who was on duty at that time, and there is probably a camera covering the front desk.

quote:

Originally posted by mikeyspizza:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
this was an update by the sheriff (from late 10 Oct)

https://www.reviewjournal.com/...oting-investigation/

"the hotel provided that room free of charge for unknown reasons."

That's BS. Whoever comp'd him the room knows the reasons. It shouldn't be hard to ID who was on duty at that time, and there is probably a camera covering the front desk.

The reason he was comp'd is pretty obvious. He was a high roller with likely a significant status with the casino (relative to you or me), and he showed up and asked for a comp'd room. If one is available, someone like him will usually get it free, especially during the week which I believe this was. That's really no big mystery or out of the ordinary.

Heck, my brother in law is a nothing gambler down in Atlantic City, and he gets comp'd rooms all the time.

^^^^^
Yes, even meh gamblers get a room every now and again.

No surprise that a guy with that history at the casinos got a comp'ed room. They don't care about the $500-1000/night room charge, they want the $10,000-100,000 gamblers like him will spend at the tables / games.

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Decker:
In fairness, whether or not it's the right thing to do, the lawsuits are already flying and the pattern ain't nearly full yet.

Yes indeed. Lawsuits were a mathematical certainty.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Thanks, KenS, for that. Any thoughts on what effects gunshots would have on those windows?

I honestly can't say. All the work I've done on ballistic glazing was with either solid polycarbonate or glass clad polycarbonate. I do know that the hard glass in glass clad polycarbonate fractures and also "fragments" the bullets, then the polycarbonate both melts (under the friction) and captures the rounds. But this is lab testing, limited to 3-5 rounds in any one place. I don't know what unloading a whole magazine would do (test equipment is strictly single shot) and I've never tested basic glazing since it isn't deemed worth the effort or cost. I won't speculate and pretend to know more than I do. Suffice to say, I can't judge if he likely "shot out" the window or knocked it out with conventional tools, though it does look like windows I've broken with conventional tools but that doesn't really matter since I don't know if "shooting it out" wouldn't look just the same.

Ken

If they found fragments of bullets around the hotel below the window area, then that would be fairly indicative evidence that the windows were shot out. But if they have, they aren't telling.

Interesting stuff, thanks.. ^