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OC spray and cornea scouring update Login/Join 
Member
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quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech:
Ive been sprayed twice...once locally and once at the state academy. The local one was followed by a full-on obstacle course where we had to deliver strikes on dummies, differentiate between officers and suspects, cuff a suspect, and fight a guy in a red man suit. It sucked, but I came out of it knowing I could fight through it.

At the state academy they sprayed us and then we punched a bag for ten seconds. That was more pointless imo from a training perspective, but I can see how it might have been valuable to the guys that hadn't experienced it before. I just felt that our local training was a lot more practical (although it was a lot more painful!).

I had no long-term negative effects from either exposure. Both times the instructors made sure to stand far enough back to prevent hydraulic needling. Also, both times we were given only water to decon with, and were told to avoid using anything else once we went home.

I found that the eyes do a good job of flushing themselves...the water is pretty much just to wash the crap off your face so you don't keep getting recontaminated. If you strobe your eyes like they tell you (and it's easier said than done because they naturally want to slam shut and stay that way), they will flush themselves in short order. It still burns like hell, but it'll wear off eventually. The only times I ever saw people have lasting issues was when they would rub their eyes with their hands or a towel...if the cornea gets scratched at all and that stuff gets in there, it's a bad day.


The training you describe places the event of getting sprayed into a scenario in which the officer learns that they can still perform; this makes more sense to me than just spraying someone in the eyes so they'll know what it feels like. Another contributing factor may be the distance at which she was sprayed. Hard to tell for sure but from the photograph I've seen it looks to be at around 3'.

Silent
 
Posts: 1019 | Registered: February 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thought I'd give a report on my daughters progress.

For some background: She was sprayed with o/c as part of a training and it appears that the cleaning agent scoured off her corneas; very painful. Her recovery was slow and troublesome (in particular night vision).

About 4 weeks before her scheduled departure to the Academy we were out in the evening picking up pizza. When I asked my kid to watch out she hollered back: "I see it." When she turned away, a smile creased my face; my kid was back.

Two weeks before leaving she was able to drive at night.

At the graduation ceremony she received the following awards:

"... the Jack Wiseman Award, which is given to the officer selected by his/her peers as the most outstanding officer. The officers of each class select the recipient by considering two questions:

1) If you were a law enforcement agency administrator, who would you most want to hire?
2) If it were 2:00 a.m. and things were going bad quickly, who would you most want to know was coming to help you?

The award is given in tribute to Jack Wiseman, who served as a training officer and commander at the Montana Law Enforcement Academy for more than 22 years."

And

"...the Alex Mavity Award, which is given to the student who achieves the highest accumulated score on all academic and skills-based training. The award is given in honor of Billings Police Department Detective Alex Mavity, who was killed in the line of duty in 1989."

DOJMT

Silent
 
Posts: 1019 | Registered: February 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Congratulations are in order! Hear, hear!!!


About OC, I don't think I ever received permanent damage to my eyes with all of the man made and natural chemicals sprayed or gassed into my eyes over my years of training. Also, I've only used wind and water for decontamination.

Again, congratulations!!!


Retired Texas Lawman, now active reserve
 
Posts: 1160 | Location: Texas | Registered: March 03, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Res ipsa loquitur
Picture of BB61
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Silent:
Thought I'd give a report on my daughters progress.

For some background: She was sprayed with o/c as part of a training and it appears that the cleaning agent scoured off her corneas; very painful. Her recovery was slow and troublesome (in particular night vision).

About 4 weeks before her scheduled departure to the Academy we were out in the evening picking up pizza. When I asked my kid to watch out she hollered back: "I see it." When she turned away, a smile creased my face; my kid was back.

Two weeks before leaving she was able to drive at night.

At the graduation ceremony she received the following awards:

"... the Jack Wiseman Award, which is given to the officer selected by his/her peers as the most outstanding officer. The officers of each class select the recipient by considering two questions:

1) If you were a law enforcement agency administrator, who would you most want to hire?
2) If it were 2:00 a.m. and things were going bad quickly, who would you most want to know was coming to help you?

The award is given in tribute to Jack Wiseman, who served as a training officer and commander at the Montana Law Enforcement Academy for more than 22 years."

And

"...the Alex Mavity Award, which is given to the student who achieves the highest accumulated score on all academic and skills-based training. The award is given in honor of Billings Police Department Detective Alex Mavity, who was killed in the line of duty in 1989."

DOJMT

Silent


Very impressive and even better the good news regarding her vision.


__________________________

 
Posts: 12434 | Registered: October 13, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Congratulations to you both.

An unconscionable experience like the eye damage could have understandably soured her on law enforcement entirely, so her comeback and the awards are especially impressive.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47365 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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Outstanding. Congratulations.
 
Posts: 32421 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'm Fine
Picture of SBrooks
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Glad to hear that she wasn't permanently hurt by this stuff. They should probably still pursue some answers though...

Awesome on the awards !


------------------
SBrooks
 
Posts: 3791 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Congrats are definitely in order.
Congrats #1 is that she graduated the academy.
Congrats #2 is achieving and being selected for those awards.

Also I am glad that there was no permanent damage to her eyes.

As sigfreund stated this experience could have soured her on LE, and also if the damage did not heal, it could have limited her in any field and also life itself.

That is why I am glad that she is alright.

I hate getting sprayed but I understand why. My last academy they just wiped it below our eyes.
Thanks to Uncle Sam and LE, I have been gassed and sprayed so many times it is ridiculous.
 
Posts: 1836 | Location: In NC trying to get back to VA | Registered: March 03, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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Great news about her vision!

I was always leary of the products made to "clean" the eyes after OC exposure...the three different types or manufacturers that I personally carried or had used on me, said to clean the exposure with cool water and time ...

I always used J&J Baby Shampoo applied to my hair before the exposure so that when I decontaminated, it would cut the oils and help remove most of it from my hair and skin. But I just blinked through it hoping that the tears my body produced would help flush the oil from my eyes.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11246 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks all.

I am proud of her and appreciative of all the folks who put on the uniform of a peace officer.

On the side of the cleaning agent it clearly states not to be used on the eyes. This information appears to have been ignored by the representative of the company who was there at the time the cleaning agent was used. We are pressing for answers, understanding that good people can, and do, stupid things.

Glad it appears to not be permanent (though her vision is still not fully back).

Silent
 
Posts: 1019 | Registered: February 02, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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I find nothing of merit in lawsuits we hear about many incidents, but there are definite exceptions.

This is one such incident.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47365 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of 4859
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Water followed by air should be the only thing used after OC spray training.

I found being Tasered and sprayed with OC was a very good experience and it should be done by all people going into LE. You guys saying that it isn't necessary because we carry guns and don't have to be shot with them are forgetting one key thing. You still have to shoot your gun to show you can use it safety and accurately. You also need to use all your weapons under stress and can be sprayed with some of the OC you are using on some one during a physical fight. I know I was once and I was glad I knew what to do and get the guy down to the ground.


-----------------------------
Always carry. Never tell.
 
Posts: 5772 | Location: Montana  | Registered: May 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
אַרְיֵה
Picture of V-Tail
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quote:
Originally posted by 4859:

I found being Tasered and sprayed with OC was a very good experience and it should be done by all people going into LE. You guys saying that it isn't necessary because we carry guns and don't have to be shot with them are forgetting one key thing. You still have to shoot your gun to show you can use it safety and accurately.
I'm trying to follow your logic here, but it's not easy.

If I understand what you're saying, you carry Tasers and OC, and therefore you should have the experience of being on the receiving end during training.

You also carry a gun.



הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים
 
Posts: 30544 | Location: Central Florida, Orlando area | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
A Beautiful Mind
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I worked in an environment where there was OC deployed at least weekly and have had workweeks where it was daily sometimes several times per shift, to include cell entries after a high volume dispenser had been used to introduce a pound or more of OC. Yes, it's important to learn that you can work through exposure and to understand the limitations of its use. It's also important to control the training. I once saw a recruit get exposed and totally freak, running off blindly full speed into a cinderblock wall.
 
Posts: 4801 | Registered: March 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posting without pants
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quote:
Originally posted by jljones:
In reading this thread, I quickly surmise (accurately) that most don’t have to fight much while being the police.


Smile





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 33287 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posting without pants
Picture of KevinCW
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Someday it will be recognized that the ridiculous practice of deliberately spraying trainees with OC so “they know what it’s like” makes as much sense as shooting them so they would know what that’s like. Hopefully it won’t be prompted by someone’s suffering serious permanent injury. And yes, I know it’s done all the time; once lobotomies and bleeding people were done all the time.

I hope your daughter recovers quickly.


I'll tell ya, that I disagree with this specifically...

OC spray, you SHOULD experience because you WILL experience it.

With taser, or live fire, you're correct. But OC spray you WILL get despite if you are the intended target or not.

The problem is if you either can't take it, expect or want special treatment in the form of chemicals making it "easier" to take, or you expect the foam, gel, or whatever medium to deliver it only to the bad guy and not to you at all....

Any officer who has been in the room when OC spray has been deployed has been affected, from the breathing and coughing, to the burning and itching... If not, then you weren't really there.

And SO many people quit the second OC is deployed it is absolutly unacceptable to have your backup be so pathetic that they cna't help and fight through it.

To the OP, if there is ANY problem here, it is whith the "cleanng agent" and the pansy mentality that they needed it. OC spray sucks ass. IT sucks ass for around an hour. I've been sprayed multiple times for training. I've been sprayed multiple times in the field and had to just suck it up harder than the bad guy had to suck it up, and the bad gun usually got first aid care, and I didn't. In fact I can think of at least 10 times where the bad guy and I both got sprayed and he got first aid from the ambulance and I didn't. I didn't take my contacts out and cry... I didn't whine, I sucked it up. I dunno anything about this "cleaner" nonsense but it sounds like a bunch of pansy bullshit.





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 33287 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of ftttu
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I believe an officer should be exposed to OC and get tased, but I'm not going to rant about it. Doing so gives you working experience with levels of force options you have at your disposal.

OC really messes me up, but I just had to suck it up. i would volunteer to be exposed by OC again, as terrible as it is, but I NEVER EVER EVER want to be tased again.

Also, I've used OC countless times out in the field, but I've never had to use my taser. I've pulled the cartridge off numerous times and have given a lightning show warning to the unruly, but compliance was all I've gotten after doing so.


Retired Texas Lawman, now active reserve
 
Posts: 1160 | Location: Texas | Registered: March 03, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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