Hey folks,
Curious about your thoughts for cocking the hammer on a Da/Sa gun (Sig 226/Beretta 92/Etc) depending on situation. For example, lets say you are at a mall/store/park and hear shooting. You are not in imminent danger but can see an active shooter/threat at a distance. The threat is real and potentially heading your way. This threat is not within 25yds of you. You’ve made the decision to draw your weapon and take action, which you are legally and morally allowed to do given the situation. The shooter is far enough away that you question your skills and is not shooting at you, yet.

Would you cock the hammer to get into single action to give yourself a higher chance of being accurate at distance?

Interested to hear thoughts on why/why not from the forum.

Probably, but if you're not sure of your accuracy then are you sure of where a miss will go?

quote:

Curious about your thoughts for cocking the hammer on a Da/Sa gun

When I carry it's without a round in the chamber. I know I have to pull the slide to chamber a round. Yes, I know this takes an extra second or so. But when I pull that slide, I'm in single-action mode and ready to go.

Yes I would. I have cocked my SA/DA pistols and revolvers my whole life if I had time.

Couple years ago I was deer hunting and a javalina jumped out 25 yards in front of me.I drew my 226, cocked and fired before it disappeared in the brush. I found it down 15 yards into the brush.

Going single action will make a better trigger break and accuracy.

I remember as a cop we only shot @25yds as the furthest point and that’s where most people started losing points exponentially.

Later in the year, where your state qualifications weren’t on the line, the Firearms Instructor had use shoot out past 25. Hits were abysmal.

He hung a steel ISPC target and we started at 25, one hit meant you moved back. Initially it was in 5 yard increments, but at 40 it was down to the firearms instructors, me and one other guy. (We both shot on our days off-and I was an instructor in the service)

We wound up out at 163 yds-the furthest we could go. And the 3 instructors, me and the other guy were still there.

We were shooting the P226 in 357 sig. some of the women complained and said they were using 9s. So me and another guy took their guns to the 163 and rang the steel.

He told them they should be there bettering their skills on their days off.

After 25 we were allowed to cock the hammer, and all of us did. So yeah I’d go single action if I had to make a shot over 25 yds

1911 here, so it's always cocked.

Sounds like more practice is needed when coming out of the holster.

The 226 like the rest of the legacy or, classic Sigs, is designed to be holstered with the hammer de-cocked. Not all the way down but, de-cocked. Start introducing little exceptions into your manual of arms and threat scenarios, you're more likely to screw up when the adrenaline starts pumping.
Just practice and practice often.

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Originally posted by EmpireState:

Would you cock the hammer to get into single action to give yourself a higher chance of being accurate at distance?

No because it doesn't work that way for everybody. I shoot better DA, like some other old timers who were trained on revolvers.

quote:

We wound up out at 163 yds-the furthest we could go. And the 3 instructors, me and the other guy were still there.

That's very impressive. I don't think I could see the target at that distance.

In that scenario I think I would not cock the hammer. I practice normally with a DA first shot; with my GGI trigger on my 226 it's not as heavy, very smooth. With the anxiety of the situation, I would think it safer (avoiding an unwanted discharge) to use DA.
Of course in reality I would be carrying a striker-fired pistol with a manual safety (M&P Shield or Sig 320 M18); I'm still getting used to that and need to practice extensively.

Way back when, my dept issued 220’s. I recall there was a bulletin issued by Sig regarding a deputy who was injured (or another that was present in the room) when they dropped their duty belt with a holstered gun on the floor and the weapon discharged.
The subsequent investigation revealed that the weapon had been cocked and then the deputy lowered the hammer with his thumb. That action does NOT engage the hammer block. It was emphatically pointed out in the bulletin that there are only two methods for lowering the hammer on a 220- pull the trigger or use the decocking lever.
In an after action scenario where you did not discharge a round, would you remember?

I'm still of the old school first being DA and subsequent shots single action. Safe to carry that way on a SIG with a round chambered.

I recall you being a gamer. Aren't you used to that format in IDPA? It becomes second nature.

quote:

Originally posted by EmpireState:
The shooter is far enough away that you question your skills and is not shooting at you, yet.

Would you cock the hammer to get into single action to give yourself a higher chance of being accurate at distance?

If a person is questioning their skills at 25 yards, they need to practice more. If you practice, not slowly, regularly at 25 yards, anything closer becomes a much easier shot.

I also would suggest that cocking into SA increases your odds of jerking the trigger under stress conditions. This isn't to say that I wouldn't cock the hammer when shooting out at longer distances...in excess of 50 yards. When engaging targets out at 100 yards, I wouldn't think of not cocking the hammer.

I'm sure part of this is that I started in LE with a revolver (Colt Python) and also shot PCC for a few years. My department eventually when with the SIG 229/226 and we always practiced the DA first shot. I've also taught a bunch of folks how to manage the DA first shot with their 220/226/229 in classes. My competition revolvers have never been shot in SA...but than shots never go beyond 50 yards at matches

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
I'm still of the old school first being DA and subsequent shots single action. Safe to carry that way on a SIG with a round chambered.

I recall you being a gamer. Aren't you used to that format in IDPA? It becomes second nature.

6guns! How are you?

I do occasional idpa/local range shoots. Definitely used to starting in DA but like most, skillset could always use improvement. I suppose the question focuses more on going into a critical situation that is going to stretch your ability to be accurate. Think something along the scenario I mentioned but more specifically…you are going to take a shot at a threat that could be wearing armor and moving at 40 yards. The thought of doing that with a long 10lb+ da had me thinking about the potential benefit of going SA on the first shot. I’ve taken a few classes but have never heard that brought up nor an instructor mentioning it.

quote:

Originally posted by Oscars father:
In an after action scenario where you did not discharge a round, would you remember?

Good point. I suppose no more/less than if actually firing. The scenario I’m thinking about though is more of you are 100% sure you are going to be taking a shot/getting into a gunfight and have time.

I am more accurate shooting double action with a gun like a DA/SA SIG than single action. That’s why I converted my early DA/SA pistols to DAO and then switched to DAK when that system became available.

And although it was a very limited test that could be criticized for a number of reasons, I once had all the members of my agency who were issued DA/SA P220s fire a number of groups single action only and double action only. The DA groups were noticeably smaller.

The idea that double action shooting is less accurate is of course very old. In his book Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting Ed McGivern who was a fantastic double action revolver shooter ridiculed the idea at some length.

But of course not everyone thinks that way. In one class I took the instructor who was armed with a P226 always manually cocked the hammer when shooting for any sort of precise accuracy. As I recall, Jeff Cooper advocated that anyone armed with a DA/SA pistol should just deliberately “throw away” the first double action shot as fast as possible to allow getting down to the proper business of shooting single action.

In any event, if someone is going to rely on a DA/SA pistol for serious purposes I would always strongly encourage them to learn to operate the gun properly, and that means being able to score a fast, accurate, and possibly only shot possible shooting in the double action mode. One who doesn’t want to or cannot do that should select a different defensive weapon.

In the situation you describe I would cock the hammer, every advantage should be utilized.

If the shooter shoots better with the DBL action shoot that way, what ever works for you.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

We wound up out at 163 yds-the furthest we could go. And the 3 instructors, me and the other guy were still there.

That's very impressive. I don't think I could see the target at that distance.

It was a police “square range”, flat, no obstructions.

The target was a white steel plate 18” wide and 24” tall

I have a lot of DA/SA time so combining in the added stress and adrenaline I’d leave it in DA mode.

226/229
I practice drawing and firing DA with a SA folliw uo shot as I expect that will be required if I ever have to use my weapon.

That being said, in the OP's scenario, given the time to take a planned first shot I would shoot it in SA.