quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
That's such an ugly word.

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
That's such an ugly word.

How then would you choose to describe it? Seriously. Business as usual?

Honestly, I really would like to know what you perceive our government would look like IF we could achieve a strictly honest governing system. I realize that it is a theoretical question, but its interesting to ponder.
RMD

quote:

Originally posted by Jimineer:
Does corrupt include illegal?

quote:

cor·rupt
kəˈrəpt/Submit
adjective
1.
having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials"
synonyms: dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious; More
2.
(of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations.
verb
1.
cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"there is a continuing fear of firms corrupting politicians in the search for contracts"
2.
change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.
"Epicurus's teachings have since been much corrupted"
synonyms: alter, tamper with, interfere with, bastardize, debase, adulterate
"the apostolic writings had been corrupted"

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
As far as I can tell, having read multiple histories of mankind covering many thousands of years, there is no such thing as a strictly honest governing system.

quote:

Anyway, as the Medicare example showed, all human systems are gamed, for reasons rooted deeply in psychology, and great skill is displayed in the gaming because game theory has so much potential. That’s what’s wrong with the workman’s comp system in California. Gaming has been raised to an art form. In the course of gaming the system, people learn to be crooked. Is this good for civilization? Is it good for economic performance? Hell no. The people who design easily–gameable systems belong in the lowest circle of hell.

I’ve got a friend whose family controls about 8% of the truck trailer market. He just closed his last factory in California and he had one in Texas that was even worse. The workman’s comp cost in his Texas plant got to be about 30% of payroll. Well, there’s no such profit in making truck trailers. He closed his plant and moved it to Ogden, Utah, where a bunch of believing Mormons are raising big families and don’t game the workman’s comp system. The workman’s comp expense is 2% of payroll.

Are the Latinos who were peopling his plant in Texas intrinsically dishonest or bad compared to the Mormons? No. It’s just the incentive structure that so rewards all this fraud is put in place by these ignorant legislatures, many members of which have been to law school, and they just don’t think about what terrible things they’re doing to the civilization because they don’t take into account the second order effects and the third order effects in lying and cheating. So, this happens everywhere, and when economics is full of it, it is just like the rest of life.

quote:

Originally posted by blueye:
Man was born with the greed gene. If it is dominant then he either becomes a politician or a used car salesman.

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Originally posted by rduckwor:
I too believe that any system this large and complex is rife with "gaming" some necessary; a great deal unnecessary and probably illegal.

It bothers me that we don't do more to root out those who are truly crooked. Possibly that is because they are all crooked to some extent.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
It would work just fine without a great deal of it, we'd be just fine without a great deal of pork, and we'd be just fine without professional politicians of any sort. Try it, you'll see.

We'll probably never know what that looks and feels like, primarily because the very fucks who'd need to implement the changes are too busy doing that very bullshit to bother.

But in the same way the world would be fine - nee, better even - without cancer, illness, scams, waste, theft, and otherwise - we'd most certainly be better off with honest gov't.

What it would like look is more analogous to honorable military service by short timers, in for four years, nose to the grindstone, honor above all, meager pay, for love of country.

They'd leave home, go do their government job and do great work, sleep in shitty little dorms, work 18+hrs a day, wear plain old uniforms, and go home in 4yrs tired and proud.

As it is, it's a perverted shit show full of vile "professionals". Our needs, the country's needs, what's actually right and wrong, those things are way down their list of priorities.

It's like some twisted alternate universe run by televangelists-on-crack, hundreds of Creflo A Dollars wannabes running around trying to fleece the world 23hrs per day, minimum.

And we just sit here and watch, like its all supposed to be that way, like it's just some TV show we barely have time for, meanwhile - the inmates are running the asylum, believe it.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:


Adults are going to buy whatever food and other items they want no matter, so if we are providing assistance, just provide it at whatever level they qualify for and let them sort it out.

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Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:


Adults are going to buy whatever food and other items they want no matter, so if we are providing assistance, just provide it at whatever level they qualify for and let them sort it out.

And have your opponent in the next election claim you favored using government largess to buy drugs?

Recognizing what I quoted Munger as saying, that any system can be gamed, what is the best way to deliver help without being exposed to unsavory societal taboos?

We could improve the educational system enormously by allowing government money to go to parochial schools, which by and large are doing a much better job than public schools, but the horror of government aid to religion precludes it.