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Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
With three carrier groups added to other forces, and Trump's proclivity for action, Lil Kim will have plenty to think about.

Yep, I like Trumps decisiveness. I want our allies to respect and believe in us and our enemies to fear us. Too much hand wringing and upper row quarterbacking in the past few years. Let's get it done!

RMD

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Originally posted by modestglock26:

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Originally posted by parabellum:

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Originally posted by modestglock26:

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Originally posted by parabellum:
I don't give a hoot in Hell where you "live", nor about your frequency in posting. Just stow your complaints about the President. I'm not havin' it, not after what he's done for us.

You brought up my posting past, not sure what you're reaching for here.

I'm not "reaching" for anything. Whenever a member posts bullshit like you did, the very first thing I do is look at their posting history. I look at the remarks they make, not how often they're posting, which is what you brought up.

This is not a debate. We're not going to end up with you and I coming to some agreement that's beneficial for both of us. I am telling you- flat out- I will not tolerate remarks like you've made about the President. End of story.

Sounds good. Carry on.

You must be from the deeeeeeep south. As you appear to have no knowledge about what happens when skating on thin ice.

With Kim Jung-un strutting his stuff and trying hard to impress and intimidate everybody, the danger is that something could unintentionally go amiss, and in that amped-up climate trigger a war. A tested missile going haywire and landing in the South. Or instead of falling into the ocean, hitting Japan.

That's why Trump's massive response was excellent. Sending Pence to Seoul, and carrier groups into the region, the message is plain: "Don't screw around or we'll crush you like the cockroach you are." I think even Lil Kim gets that.

I'm not worried about it. This is just what has to be done.

The days of America being everyone's little bitch are over.

Trump unpredictable? Not at all. I predict he is going to do what is necessary to protect the USA.

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Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
With three carrier groups added to other forces...

We also have two Expeditionary Strike Groups in the area (America near Taiwan and Bonhomme Richard in port in Japan).

That's a total of five battle groups, covering everything from aircraft strikes, to missile strikes, to Special Operations troops, to Marine boots on the ground.

(Not to mention the 30,000ish US troops currently in South Korea.)

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Tell ya what- let's set a date. Let's say, oh, Labor Day. I am telling you that months from now, NK and SK will still exist as sovereign nations and no one in that region will have detonated any nuclear weapons.

You be sure and come around so that I can say "I told you so", 'k?

Everytime we start the worrying and hand-wringing in this forum about this or that, I pipe up and make a bold statement that turns out to be true. Same thing this time around. Bet on it.

But we'll all be dead from the E-Boh-las by then!

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Originally posted by Hound Dog:

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Any engagement with the North that doesn't end with Seoul basically destroyed and hordes of southern deaths will be amazing. So many people there, so close. Way to many to evacuate, too, and it's too far away and too many of them to find safety anyway.

From what I've read, North Korea has thousands of artillery pieces in caves/bunkers dialed in or Seoul. In a single hour, they could put millions of rounds downtown, effectively obliterating the South Korean capital. This is the NorKs' 'insurance policy' that keeps the allies from making a first move. Any such first move would guarantee the destruction of the capital (maybe this is a good reason that you shouldn't establish ANY major city, ESPECIALLY your political and economic capital, within arty range of a homicidal adversary? ).

Even if we launched a pre-emptive strike on their arty, we would never get enough of them before they killed thousands and made Seoul uninhabitable.

Not trying to come off as arrogant or as a know it all, but Seoul was founded in 18 BC. The DMZ was established within proximity to Seoul, not the other way around.

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With Kim Jung-un strutting his stuff and trying hard to impress and intimidate everybody, the danger is that something could unintentionally go amiss, and in that amped-up climate trigger a war.

That's probably the biggest threat, or that he'll go full suicidal loon. Apart from these possibilities I'm expecting he'll be kicked to the curb in some fashion by us and/or the Chinese. If he has any self-preservation sense at all, he'll have to heed the harsh warnings when they arise. I guess I'm banking on him not being so stupid and delusional as to think that he can take on a super power (or powers) and win anything. I'd really love to see this regime toppled, but I have yet to hear what a good replacement possibility would be. There seems to be nothing of particular appeal waiting in the wings.

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Originally posted by Ken226:

Not trying to come off as arrogant or as a know it all, but Seoul was founded in 18 BC. The DMZ was established within proximity to Seoul, not the other way around.

Capitals can change. Bonn was capital of West Germany, and after unification, they moved it back to Berlin.

The Korean War never ended, and SKor purposefully chose Seoul as their capital. Within arty range of their enemy. RIGHT ON the border, so that they would literally be the first place over-run in a NorK attack (and close to NorK tactical air, too).

And they didn't HAVE TO make Seoul their major city, either. Plenty of land for that (out of arty range).


If they were smart, they would have established the capital at LEAST out of arty range; the further south, the better. . .

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Originally posted by Hound Dog:

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Originally posted by Ken226:

Not trying to come off as arrogant or as a know it all, but Seoul was founded in 18 BC. The DMZ was established within proximity to Seoul, not the other way around.

Capitals can change. Bonn was capital of West Germany, and after unification, they moved it back to Berlin.

The Korean War never ended, and SKor purposefully chose Seoul as their capital. Within arty range of their enemy. RIGHT ON the border, so that they would literally be the first place over-run in a NorK attack (and close to NorK tactical air, too).

And they didn't HAVE TO make Seoul their major city, either. Plenty of land for that (out of arty range).


If they were smart, they would have established the capital at LEAST out of arty range; the further south, the better. . .

Sure, I understand it that context. I was thinking more of the people who live there, but moving the political capital a little further away would have been a great idea.

Had they made a difference city, further from the DMZ, the capital, perhaps Seoul wouldn't be as big as it is now. It'd likely still be a problem though.

After seeing what happened to Saddam and Kaddaffi, I think the little fat boy began to feel more

insecure and felt the need to "nuke up". By developing nukes and missile tech, he feels he is safer. Sabre rattling and bluster resulted because we had a coward president who did nothing. Kim took this inaction and appeasement to mean that his actions were working. Now we're going to be sorting this out for the next decade trying to fix all the harm Mr O did to the free world in 8 years.

Maybe we can immigrate some beautiful Korean ladies to America. Poor things..

I, too, have been a huge fan of Trump's willingness to act. It's refreshing after the last 8 years.

I've always thought that I'd see the demise of Norrh Korea in my lifetime. I think, however, the catalyst for the regime's fall won't be due to China, South Korea, Japan or the US - it'll be internal. Specifically, the Army. From all I can gather, if one isn't a high ranking politician or a Lil-Kimmy family member elite, the army is the way to keep from starving to death. If Kim (somehow) loses control of his army, I theorize he loses control of his country.

I have no idea how this would happen, but one needs to look no farther than 1989 Romania as an example. Again, different circumstances but history does have a way of repeating itself.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
For this reason (most violent coups come from the military, not the Post Office. . .) many despots execute any military leader that shows signs of competency (they don't want anybody with the courage or ambition to try a coup). Therefore, the militaries of these dictatorships are usually lousy and the US will steam-roll right over them.

Of course, keeping themselves in office is more important to them than maintaining a strong national defense.

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Originally posted by nhtagmember:
the only way these guys can deliver a nuke is to use UPS..

And it would end up in New Zealand.

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Originally posted by maxdog:
After seeing what happened to Saddam and Kaddaffi, I think the little fat boy began to feel more insecure and felt the need to "nuke up". By developing nukes and missile tech, he feels he is safer. Sabre rattling and bluster resulted because we had a coward president who did nothing. Kim took this inaction and appeasement to mean that his actions were working. Now we're going to be sorting this out for the next decade trying to fix all the harm Mr O did to the free world in 8 years.

North Korea started their nuclear program in the 90's. Jimmy Carter convinced Bill Clinton to lift sanctions on North Korea in 1994 which ensured the development of nuclear weapons, much as Obama has ensured Iran will develop nuclear weapons. Note that Bill Clinton despises Jimmy Carter and you never see them together.

Bill Clinton is 100% responsible for North Korea having nuclear weapons.

SK did base their Capital in Busan, way way further south during the Korean War where Seoul was captured at one time.

One high estimate I read said that NK can put 500,000 170mm-240mm (MLRS) rounds into Seoul and its northern suburbs, with a defect/dud rate of 15-25% within the FIRST HOUR.

Assuming NK can only do 1/5th of that, that's still 100,000 rounds landed, with 75,000 exploding before counter-battery fire and heavy bombing strikes can eliminate some of those NK batteries. The battery will also move as well after the initial salvos, so counter battery fire will not be all effective.

I'd imagine that any kind of Iron Dome/Arrow/THAAD umbrella would be easily overwhelmed with that kind of volume.

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Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:...
One high estimate I read said ....

I believe there is very little possibility of launcing such a strike of this magnitude without the pre-initiation activity being detected.

The NORKs cannot pull off a massive initiation of a full attack without the South getting wind of this, and if enough "prep" or even an "exercise" of a "certain kind" of tell begins, I belive the North Koreans woul experience a greater surprise.

But anything tripping the trigger in Korea, is not a good thing for anyone.

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Originally posted by BamaJeepster:
<snip>
Note that Bill Clinton despises Jimmy Carter and you never see them together.
<snip>

By God! I do have something in common with Bill Clinton.