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quote:
Originally posted by Graniteguy:
quote:
Originally posted by satch:
This will be the great worker “reset”.Workers leaving jobs they don’t like and finding one better.yes there always be the lazy ones sitting on the couch,they would do that if offered 50 dollars an hour.This reset will go on for years and will be a big challenge for businesses and other employers. This is the time to give raises to the workers instead of big bonuses to the Excex’s etc.


You just made me laugh. Big bonuses to Execs will only increase - they never decrease.
. Then the board of directors of those company’s wouldn’t realize what is happening and will be the reason the company doing badly.
 
Posts: 4376 | Registered: November 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
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Lots of things to parse out:

A) How many are the tail end of Baby Boomers quitting to retire/become consultants?

B) How many are financially independent Gen X, who are irritated about taking home a small fraction of their earnings?

I think this could be a quite a bit - many/most of the producing/taxpaying class could live a modest middle class life, without working by their early 40s/late 30s...

Keeping ~ a quarter out of every dollar you make, to fund cronies, stupidity, and waste, while being told you're a horrible person for addressing the desires of the market (AKA, "Heeding the Voice of the People."), gets very old...

Sharecroppers were abused, and insulted, and denigrated, but at least they got to keep about 75% of their earnings.
 
Posts: 4513 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Skins2881
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quote:
Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
Some people want to continue working at home and not go back to offices. Some people are getting better jobs made available by remote work and quitting the job they have. Some don't want to get vaccine from employer mandates. Some are tired of being understaffed and having to work a lot of overtime. Some do not want to have to deal enforcing mask use or vaccine proof from customers.


I'm on Facebook. I have seen dozens of people say they are not going to work for anything less than a 'living wage' whatever that means. I don't know how many of them are actually playing that game of chicken or if it's just talk.

Also have seen calls to scrap the $15 min wage fight, get this, know why? It's not enough due to inflation, unfortunately they are too stupid to understand the irony.



Jesse

Sic Semper Tyrannis
 
Posts: 18524 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: December 27, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by vthoky:
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Stating "X number of people quit this month" doesn't take into account what they did after quitting, like rolling directly into a different job.


I wondered a little about this point earlier today.

Two of my direct reports quit this summer -- one to go back to school, the other joining the Marines (Corp of Cadets grad, good kid). How do those get counted? The first, I suppose, is completely outside the work force now. The second... I don't know how his job change gets counted.


exactly. quite a bit of melodrama in the headline.

the main thing to look at the long-term labor force participation rate. and of course -- COVID has created a highly unusual set of circumstances.

many 'mass employers' like food service are STILL operating on limited capacity basis... it will take some more time for all this to shake out.

interestingly -- i am using large scale sports as a barometer. if you see a stadium -- for example college football - filled to capacity 100K + -- to me that's an indication people are putting COVID in the rearview en masse.


-------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8626 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:
interestingly -- i am using large scale sports as a barometer. if you see a stadium -- for example college football - filled to capacity 100K + -- to me that's an indication people are putting COVID in the rearview en masse.


Indeed.





God bless America.
 
Posts: 11261 | Location: Hokie Nation! | Registered: July 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
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quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
Also have seen calls to scrap the $15 min wage fight, get this, know why? It's not enough due to inflation, unfortunately they are too stupid to understand the irony.





"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 21127 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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more info in this WSJ from today. lots of factors in play.

----------------------------------------


4.3 Million Workers Are Missing. Where Did They Go?

Many economists expect the shortage to last years, and some think it could be permanent

Jesse Stromwick decided to leave his job as a senior engineering manager earlier this year. Kristina Barker for The Wall Street Journal

Oct. 14, 2021 11:57 am ET

Scarce labor is becoming a fixture of the U.S. economy, reshaping the workforce and prodding firms to adapt by raising wages, reinventing services and investing in automation.

More than a year and a half into the pandemic, the U.S. is still missing around 4.3 million workers. That’s how much bigger the labor force would be if the participation rate—the share of the population 16 or older either working or looking for work—returned to its February 2020 level of 63.3%. In September, it stood at 61.6%.

The absence comes as U.S. employers are struggling to fill more than 10 million job openings and meet soaring consumer demand. In another sign of just how tight the labor market is, jobless claims—a proxy for layoffs across the U.S.—fell to 293,000 last week, the first time since the pandemic began that they fell below 300,000, the Labor Department said Thursday.

Workers are quitting at or near the highest rates on record in sectors such as manufacturing, retail, and trade, transportation and utilities, as well as professional and business services.

Participation has fallen broadly across demographic groups and career fields, but has dropped particularly fast among women, workers without a college degree and those in low-paying service industries such as hotels, restaurants and child care.

The participation rate experienced its biggest drop since at least World War II in the early months of the pandemic. It partly rebounded last summer and since then has hovered near the lowest level since the 1970s, despite sturdy economic growth and the strongest wage gains in years.

Siomara Wilson took an early retirement when she was let go from her job.

Many economists expected school reopenings, expiring unemployment benefits and the fading Delta variant to help boost labor-force participation this fall. But evidence suggests labor shortages might be deepening: Labor supply declined in September and workers quit at record rates in August.

Some economists are concerned that worsening worker shortages reflect longer-term shifts, such as the pandemic-driven acceleration of retirements, that won’t reverse.

Have you switched jobs or companies in recent months? Tell us about it in the form below.

Many expect the labor shortage to last at least several more years, and some say it’s permanent. Of 52 economists surveyed by The Wall Street Journal, 22 predicted that participation would never return to its pre-pandemic level.

“Our problem is not an economy that doesn’t want to get started—it’s already started,” said Ron Hetrick, an economist at labor analytics firm Emsi Burning Glass. “It just doesn’t have people to make the engine run. We don’t know how to reignite this thing right now.”

After partially rebounding last year, labor-force participation has remained below February 2020 levels...

recently dropping further among women...

particularly those aged 55 and older.

Workers without a college degree are also far more likely to be out of the labor force.

Normally after recessions, consumers are reluctant to spend and businesses to hire, and laid-off workers are eager to find a job. This time, consumer spending is robust and employers are anxious to hire, but workers aren’t willing or able to come back. Companies are adjusting in ways that accept the worker shortage as the status quo, making changes that promise to have a lasting impact.

The prospect of a smaller labor force could make it especially hard for large employers to meet ambitious hiring targets for the holiday season. Amazon. com Inc. and Walmart Inc. have announced plans to recruit more than 300,000 workers between them in the coming months, while UPS and FedEx Corp. are hoping to hire nearly 200,000 package handlers and other workers.

Employees are reaping the benefits of large pay raises. At the same time, many businesses are responding to higher wage costs by boosting the output of their workers they have, with productivity up 5% from the first quarter of 2020 through the second quarter of 2021.

The reasons for the labor shortages are myriad, and often interrelated. Day-care centers, short of workers, are turning away applicants. The number of people employed in child care was down by 108,700, or 10.4%, in September 2021 compared with February 2020, Labor Department data show. Wages for such workers were up 10% in August of this year from February 2020. More expensive, harder-to-find daycare ripples through the economy, giving some parents added reason to stay home with young children rather than return to work.

Pandemic border closures have reduced the availability of immigrant workers. Many baby boomers, fearful of the virus and their portfolios fattened by the bull market, are retiring early. Other workers have become self-employed. Trillions of federal relief dollars have made many less eager to return to strenuous, modestly paid jobs.

“Work—for me, at least—just wasn’t working for our family anymore,” said Stephanie Schaefer, a 36-year-old mother of two in Riverside, Calif.

At the pandemic’s start, Mrs. Schaefer worked part time as a public relations representative for her church, earning roughly $31,000 a year. She loved the job and planned to stay even after having her second child in 2020, with her mother watching the children. On Christmas Eve, her mother died of Covid.

Meanwhile, her husband got a new sales job for a flooring manufacturer, with a raise. The couple considered the high cost of child care and decided that she would stay home with their 3-year-old daughter and 1-year-old son, at least until they reach kindergarten.

Economists say many workers in low-paying fields are being lured by higher-paying industries, or holding out for higher pay or for the job that will best suit their needs. In August nearly 4.3 million people quit their jobs, a record for Labor Department data back to December 2000.

Many big corporations have raised wages for service workers in recent years as the labor market tightened, a trend that accelerated during the pandemic. “If Amazon is paying $15 an hour to work in a warehouse, that might be a more rewarding job than to be a child-care worker,” said Betsey Stevenson, a University of Michigan economist who previously advised President Barack Obama in the White House. “Child-care workers just have more options right now.”

Goldman Sachs said in a note this month that enhanced unemployment benefits—which at one point provided up to $600 a week to jobless workers, on top of normal benefits—have likely contributed to the shortage. Other economists dispute that. Those extra benefits expired in about half of states earlier this summer and the remaining states in early September. Household savings collectively stood at $1.7 trillion in August, up 21% from the February 2020 level of $1.4 trillion, according to research by investment bank Natixis.

When the pandemic began, Jesse Stromwick was a senior engineering manager at a small software firm in Portland, Ore., supervising a couple dozen employees.

“In the pandemic there were a lot of challenges in our business that I was called upon to deal with,” said Mr. Stromwick, 34. “Just tapping that button all the time is really tiring: ‘Go deal with this crappy situation that’s imploded, OK, here’s another one that’s imploded, go deal with that one.’ ”

The birth of his son last November added to his doubts about whether the job’s rewards were worth the sacrifices. He initially looked for other opportunities. When a friend suggested that he take time off entirely, Mr. Stromwick was intrigued. “Is that even a thing you can do in capitalism?” he recalls thinking.

Mr. Stromwick, with his wife and son, had initially looked for other job opportunities before deciding to take time off entirely.

His wife, a nurse-midwife, supported the move. The federal government, under a combination of policies from the Trump and Biden administrations, has allowed borrowers like his wife to suspend student-loan payments through January 2022. The couple also refinanced their mortgage at a lower interest rate. Those adjustments have saved around $2,000 a month. His wife picked up more hours at work.

Mr. Stromwick’s planned three months off has stretched to five months and might last till the end of the year, he says. He spends time with 11-month-old Amos, cooks and is working with a friend to design a fitness app, which he hopes will eventually make enough money to become a full-time job.

“Two years ago I was thinking, I want to get as high as I can on the corporate ladder,” he said. “It just interests me less now if it comes with a sacrifice to my mental health and my connection with my family.”

The pandemic remains a barrier to higher participation. Between mid-June and mid-September, the number of people who said they couldn’t work because they were sick with Covid or were caring for someone who had the virus rose by 2.5 million, according to a Moody’s analysis of Commerce Department data. While reported Covid cases spiked in early September nationwide, the numbers have fallen in the past few weeks.

Employers are overhauling their business models to adjust for the labor shortage. Some, such as restaurants, are cutting the hours or days that they’re open. Others are cutting services.

An influx of New Yorkers moved to the small town of Washington, Conn., during the pandemic, helping spur business at the Po Cafe, said owner Maggie Colangelo. Her 10 employees are logging long hours and juggling multiple roles.

The cafe cut back hours and is closed Sundays and Mondays because Ms. Colangelo can’t find workers. She has raised pay for the average worker by about $1.50 in the past year to $14.50 an hour, but said she can’t afford to go much higher. The pay increases have contributed to higher menu prices.

Nationwide, employment at restaurants and bars was down by 930,500 jobs, or 7.6%, in September from February 2020; hourly pay was up 12.7% between February 2020 and August 2021. Inflation data show some of that is being passed on to customers: Restaurant meals were 7.3% more expensive in September than in February 2020.

“We just constantly have to remind the customers that although it feels normal, on our end it’s anything but,” said Ms. Colangelo, who expects that many workers who left the industry won’t return. “I think in the restaurant business, this is the new normal.”

‘The barista might be making your coffee. But he might also be running back and helping me bread chicken because we don’t have all the people we need to have,’ says Po Cafe owner Maggie Colangelo.

Scarce labor is similarly changing how hotels operate. Host Hotels & Resorts Inc., a large owner of Hyatt and Marriott-branded hotels, has discussed eliminating hot breakfast buffets and other changes to its food and beverage services, and is asking guests to request daily room cleaning rather than automatically providing it.

Hilton Worldwide Holdings Inc. says it will fully clean rooms before guests check in and then on every fifth day of their stays, with daily housekeeping available for guests who request it.

“Our industry needs more housekeepers. We need more guest service agents. We need more culinary team members,” Geoff Ballotti, the chief executive of Wyndham Hotels & Resorts Inc., told analysts in July. On the demise of daily housekeeping, he said, “I think that’s where the industry is heading.”

Hotels employed about 290,000 fewer people in August than in the month before the pandemic, a drop of 17%, and were paying the employees they had an average of $20.83 an hour in August, up 13.3% since before the pandemic.

Amid the shortages, more businesses are looking to labor-saving technology such as self-checkout stations at retailers and tablets for ordering food at restaurants. Business investment in information processing equipment rose 16% in the year through June, after growing 4% annually on average over the past 10 years, according to a Moody’s Analytics analysis of Commerce Department data.

In Reno, Nev., where there is an acute shortage of nurses, the large nonprofit hospital system Renown Health is investing in technology to allow each nurse to serve more patients. In a pilot program, an electronic device roughly the size of a quarter attached to a patient’s chest allows Renown’s nurses to check vital signs remotely. The nurses work from a cavernous room resembling an airport’s air-traffic control center, but instead of planes, they monitor heartbeats, blood pressure and other vital signs.

CEO Tony Slonim said that the pandemic-induced labor shortage led him to pursue the new technology, and that he hopes it will allow Renown to serve patients across the region in rural hospitals, at skilled nursing facilities and in their homes. “We’ve got to break through with these innovations if we’re going to be successful in managing the workforce challenges and shortages,” he said.

Another response to scarce labor is to ask and sometimes require existing employees to work overtime. Manufacturing employees worked an average of 4.2 overtime hours a week last month, up from 2.8 hours in April 2020, according to Labor Department data. While many workers like the extra money, others feel frustrated and overworked.

For now, the new normal of labor scarcity is mostly good for workers, but some may be left worse off in the long run. Hotels, by adjusting their operations to require less labor, will end up eliminating jobs that traditionally have gone to tens of thousands of predominantly Black and Hispanic women, according to Unite Here, a union that represents hotel and other workers.

Many who have left the workforce aren’t coming back. Some of the decline in participation reflects aging trends that predate the pandemic. Even so, the population of retirees rose by 3.6 million in the U.S. between February 2020 and June 2021, more than double the 1.5 million increase that would have occurred if the pre-pandemic pace of retirements had continued, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City.

Diane Sealey, 63, was furloughed from her job as a senior housekeeper at the Boston Marriott Copley Place, a Host property, in March 2020 after working there for 35 years. Six months later, she was laid off from the $25-an-hour job.

Ms. Sealey, who has lupus, said she decided to retire rather than start over somewhere new. She claimed Social Security earlier than she’d planned, cutting her monthly benefit by a few hundred dollars. The experience left her feeling betrayed, and reluctant to join another company, she said. “We were always told that we were family, that we stuck together, but when times got hard, they tossed us out the door like we was nothing,” she said.

Host representatives didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Siomara Wilson, 62, was permanently let go from her account executive job at Marriott International Inc., her employer of about 25 years. Job opportunities appeared slim, and she and her husband had built up a financial cushion from years of savings, stock-market investments and homeownership. She decided to retire several years earlier than she had previously planned.

Ms. Wilson said she now enjoys going on walks with her golden retriever, volunteering at a food bank and reading John Grisham novels. When Marriott recently contacted her to gauge her interest in a job opening, she didn’t pursue it. “The timing wasn’t right,” Ms. Wilson said. “I just can’t see myself jumping into that go, go, go, go, go right now.”

write to Josh Mitchell at joshua.mitchell@wsj.com, Lauren Weber at lauren.weber+1@wsj.com and Sarah Chaney Cambon at sarah.chaney@wsj.com

-------------------------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8626 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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I’m not getting the stinking snake oil vaccine so I’m retiring 4 months early; I’m sure retirees will also show as missing jobs. Since I am a federal pensioner to be, I’ll be restricted by a salary cap of around $19k a year so I either have to take a seriously menial job (not likely) or work part time (far more likely) to avoid failing the earnings test. Otherwise I’d renter the workforce and make as much as I could. I am simply disgusted by all the people that are content to sit on their asses for less than poverty wages. Their poor decisions are going to come full circle very soon, I’m afraid. The free money will run out eventually and it’ll be sink or swim.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 12877 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shit don't
mean shit
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quote:
Originally posted by Sig209:

Diane Sealey, 63, was furloughed from her job as a senior housekeeper at the Boston Marriott Copley Place, a Host property, in March 2020 after working there for 35 years. Six months later, she was laid off from the $25-an-hour job.

Ms. Sealey, who has lupus, said she decided to retire rather than start over somewhere new. She claimed Social Security earlier than she’d planned, cutting her monthly benefit by a few hundred dollars. The experience left her feeling betrayed, and reluctant to join another company, she said. “We were always told that we were family, that we stuck together, but when times got hard, they tossed us out the door like we was nothing,” she said.


Yes, I learned this right after 9/11 when I was laid off from a small software company. Fuck 'em.
 
Posts: 5252 | Location: 7400 feet in Conifer CO | Registered: November 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
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quote:
Other workers have become self-employed.

It would be interesting to know how many of them are doing what they did before, but as contractors rather than employees. For some buisnesses it actually works out cheaper that way in that they're paid more but get fewer benefits and no pension.
 
Posts: 25731 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Non-Miscreant
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Go ahead and call me lazy, because I am. I've been retired now for 11+ years. I get up usually at the crack of noon. Or not. I don't care.

Those of you bitching, guess how much it will take for me to get up early? Its not gonna happen. I don't want to work. I don't watch much TV either. My wife still watches the news, such as it is. Just biased reporting to support the crooked demo-rats. I've always been a cynic, but its a lot worse now. I'm happy with it.


Unhappy ammo seeker
 
Posts: 17947 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: February 25, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
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It might get pretty ugly. I know a few corporate HR types have decided to blackball anyone who's not been working over the summer/late spring of '21.

It will be a bit of a battle between the snowflakes, who no one ever wanted to hire in the first place, automation, the sane, and the votes of the incompetent.
 
Posts: 4513 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
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Automation will win wherever it's given a fighting chance.
 
Posts: 25731 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I am willing to bet a lot of dual income families have dropped to single income. If you can now get a good size raise by changing jobs, your spouse can stay home and avoid the cost of day care and actually do a better job raising the kids, and also allow home schooling.

And you know, after staying at home for a year and a half, if they were able to retain their jobs and didn't go out and spend money like before, maybe they realize they don't need that extra income.

How many family men here would have their wife stay home with the kids if they could get a 50% raise? Or vice versa if the case may be?
 
Posts: 3292 | Location: Indiana | Registered: December 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Then the board of directors of those company’s wouldn’t realize what is happening and will be the reason the company doing badly


Except they all sit on each other boards.
 
Posts: 894 | Registered: November 07, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
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Il Cattivo, absolutely!

Lots of companies, at least those still functioning, have the cash to buy equipment - I’d love to buy an ice cream scooping robot, so I just had to hire personable people to interact with customers/am interested in trying some of those automated kiosks.

The social issue is what do we do with useless people? We have a cultural subset without a desire to work, and who, often, are illiterate despite having a HS diploma…

(We require 3 digit multiplication, division, fractions etc as an employee test. They are allowed to use calculators. Most of them fail/do not even attempt it.)

Hard labor prison sentences, and replacing welfare with government jobs?

Tax credits for charities which demand labor?

Eliminate unemployment?
 
Posts: 4513 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Myrtle Beach, SC | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
eh-TEE-oh-clez
Picture of Aeteocles
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I've said this before.

The fact that we have potholes in our streets and litter in our parks, yet at the same time pay people to do nothing, is absurd.

I say we replace unemployment with guaranteed civil service jobs.

You lost your job? Need money to get by until you find a new job? Here's a paint roller, restripe this federal building parking lot for the 23rd time this year. It pays minimum wage, but it's guaranteed. Oh, you have a documented disability? Cool, sit here in the same room with these animals at the shelter so they don't feel lonely.

We should be paying people to pick up litter, fill pot holes, shovel snow, read to children at the library, mow lawns at the civic center, whatever.

Literally anything but allowing people to have their own time AND free money. One or the other. Guarantee people will head back to work ASAP.
 
Posts: 12315 | Location: Orange County, California | Registered: May 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
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quote:
Originally posted by Aglifter:
The social issue is what do we do with useless people? We have a cultural subset without a desire to work, and who, often, are illiterate despite having a HS diploma…

I'm not sure how to find it since I stumbled across it on another board, but apparently there's a thread on reddit where the OP asked what people thought their jobs would be if they were part of a commune. Everyone who answered would be a librarian, s baby-sitter, a "mental health" volunteer of one kind or another or a gardener.
 
Posts: 25731 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[quote]posted October 15, 2021 01:47 PM Hide Post
I've said this before.

The fact that we have potholes in our streets and litter in our parks, yet at the same time pay people to do nothing, is absurd.

I say we replace unemployment with guaranteed civil service jobs.

You lost your job? Need money to get by until you find a new job? Here's a paint roller, restripe this federal building parking lot for the 23rd time this year. It pays minimum wage, but it's guaranteed. Oh, you have a documented disability? Cool, sit here in the same room with these animals at the shelter so they don't feel lonely.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Every time we do this sort of thing there is strong pushback from the Democrats. The Civilian Conservation Corps was successful. It was Roosevelt's most successful program in the New Deal.
 
Posts: 10923 | Location: Stuck at home | Registered: January 02, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I've said this before.

The fact that we have potholes in our streets and litter in our parks, yet at the same time pay people to do nothing, is absurd.

I say we replace unemployment with guaranteed civil service jobs.

You lost your job? Need money to get by until you find a new job? Here's a paint roller, restripe this federal building parking lot for the 23rd time this year. It pays minimum wage, but it's guaranteed. Oh, you have a documented disability? Cool, sit here in the same room with these animals at the shelter so they don't feel lonely.

We should be paying people to pick up litter, fill pot holes, shovel snow, read to children at the library, mow lawns at the civic center, whatever.

Literally anything but allowing people to have their own time AND free money. One or the other. Guarantee people will head back to work ASAP.


Great points, thanks.
 
Posts: 2181 | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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