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First of a handful I fear. This is unbelievably dangerous work. May God watch over the rescuers and the soccer team. Nick "I cannot imagine any condition which would cause a ship to founder. I cannot conceive of any vital disaster happening to this vessel. Modern shipbuilding has gone beyond that." -Capt. Edward Smith | |||
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Mr Courtly needs to stick to his knowledge of expertise, which is combat diving. A different animal entirely compared to salvage diving, rescue diving and very different to cave diving. His 'view points' don't add anything but throwing fuel onto the pyre of media headlines and self promotion. The only reason why Thai Navy SEALs are on-scene and involved is they're the only organized government representative with any diving experience at all. Short of that, they're entirely reliant on outside (see Australia, UK, US and other countries) assistance. There's already reports of unaccounted for volunteers who were pumping water BACK INTO the cave areas, believing they were assisting. It's a headline grabbing shit show, that's attracting the well intentioned but, woefully skilled... SMH  | |||
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Member |
An experienced diver has already passed away in the rescue attempt, Corsair. I don’t know a damn thing about cave diving but having 13 kids who don’t even know how to swim attempt to do a a multi part dive, including places where barely a human can fit... it would be foolish to predict anything but casualties, no? | |||
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| Staring back from the abyss  |
...Unless it rains.  ________________________________________________________ "Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton. | |||
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| Member |
I have no problems with blunt honesty however, he could've emphasized the gravity of the situation by explaining why cave diving is difficult, that all the assistance coming in needs to be clearly organized, and a clear hierarchy of decision making is established so that everyone understands what the plan is. From his couch in Colorado, not being on scene and his limited background (as it pertains to cave diving), he's really not in any position to say what they should or, shouldn't do but he can explain the complication and difficulties. He's not wrong, however his answer could've been more constructive and contributory. | |||
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Drill Here, Drill Now |
1/2 mile deep isn’t much if you’ve got good terrain above for getting in a drill rig. The logistics of getting in a drill rig can be a nightmare with low speeds and ability to crush culverts and crumble bridges. As you said, hitting a cave isn’t easy but possible with accurate maps and subsurface data (eg is rock consistently sized in layers or are there discontinuities that’ll knock the drill head off course). I haven’t seen any stories mentioning the area has been 3D seismographed. However, drilling isn’t my area of O&G expertise and would defer to BigBoreShooter. Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer. | |||
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| That rug really tied the room together.  |
I mean clearly that is the only logical conclusion. ______________________________________________________ Often times a very small man can cast a very large shadow | |||
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| half-genius, half-wit |
Para, respectfully, you neglected to mention the part played by the CIA, President Trump and the NRA in the 'plots'. tac | |||
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| Member |
Is pumping the cave out really a viable option? Everything I’ve read seems to not be putting too much emphasis on that approach. | |||
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Member |
Ugh. He ran out of air on the way out. Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed. Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists. Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed. | |||
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Happily Retired |
Everything thing I know about cave diving is what I have read right here in this thread. It seems to me the best option for success is to dig them out from above. One person is already dead. Damn.  .....never marry a woman who is mean to your waitress. | |||
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| Member |
where's harry stamper when you need him? -------------------------------------------- Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. | |||
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| Just for the hell of it  |
Did he run out of air when in an underwater section? Absolutely no reason for this. The media need to stop referring to the gas they are breathing as Oxygen. The only time you breath 100% O2 when diving is for deco stops at 20' or less. Well, I guess the depths are shallow enough to breathe it during the dive but there are still other issues with that. These guys are breath air. Maybe a slight chance of Nitrox which has little extra O2 but they are not breathing 100% O2. Very unlikely any of these Tai Navy Seals have any cave diving experience. _____________________________________ Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain. Jack Kerouac | |||
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| Member |
Yep, yet this is number one killer of unexperienced divers going into caves. Worse was the quote that his "buddy" found him. Where was the buddy as he burned his tank dry? | |||
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id he run out of air when in an underwater section? Absolutely no reason for this. | Green grass and high tides  |
Prayer sent for all involved. It sounds to me like they will try to bring them out underwater. At least that is what I am getting from the reports I have read. "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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| Member |
He may have been ahead or, behind the diver where you can only move single-file, in near zero visibility state. In open water, there's no excuse for running out of air, obviously you're supposed to keep watch of your gauges but, you doubly need to keep track of time and your breath-rate. There's a lot of variables to why this happened...he was exhausted and burned through his bottle too fast, the bottle he got wasn't filled-up, he didn't calculate correctly, he tried to be a hero and stretch his supply. The vast majority of these divers are relying on open-circuit systems, for an 11-hour round-trip, that's an insane amount of bottles needed to stage within this cave complex, and with limited space the chance of errors increases hence the need for topside organization and concise decision making. This death highlights not only the danger but, the need for everyone working, to stay within their given parameters. | |||
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Info Guru |
Isn't this a good indication that trying to bring those kids out via diving would almost surely result in multiple deaths? “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
That's my opinion on the topic, but I'm sure they'll do what they think is the best on site. | |||
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| Member |
I don't think there's any good options. Diving them out is the most direct option albeit a dangerous one. Any kind of digging or, material removal you run the risk of collapse, they're in a jungle environment where a lot of the ground is crumbly and soft. A lot of unknowns from afar. | |||
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| Member |
Yes. | |||
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