^^^ The theory is that if everything else falls apart then any organized group, no matter how small, is in a position to take control. Think of it as a sort of psychological vestigial tail - they know they're a distinct minority, they know (at one level or another) that they'll never be a majority even if they win, and this is just (as far as they theorize) another application of asymmetrical warfare.

I'm not sure I can give voice to my thoughts on this succinctly, but I'll try.

I'm discouraged. I find it hard to fathom there are so many people who would like to see this great nation fall, but it's true, they're here among us. People who are takers, & suck more than their own efforts produce. From the top of liberal government types, to the lowest freeloaders on the government teat. I don't understand it. Where do they think the money will come from when we, the producers either quit or age-out of being taxpayers. The pool of producers will shrink one way or another if this isn't reversed. I'm discouraged, but I won't be beaten into submission.

I'm dismayed. Since there are so many who would like to see US fall, I have no doubt we are on the path to a real reckoning. I don't see any turning this back, short of a real conflict. We don't want this, but I believe it will sooner or later be thrust upon us. Most of us alive today have never known true hard times in our country & we have the richest "poor people" on the planet. Conflict now seems inevitable. I'm dismayed, but will do whatever I can to uphold our way of life.

I'm deeply disappointed. Vehemently so, in fact. More accurately, I'm pissed off & mad as hell. To think that I am somehow to blame for the perceived evils & wrongs the other side ascribes to me & you is deeply offensive, & a blame I won't bear. To know that an entire segment of the population, their government cronies, and the news media hold me responsible for all the inequities of our nation makes my blood boil. Simply because I work, save, & produce daily, I'm the root of their problem. Would that they might search inwardly for their answer, but we know they cannot accept responsibility. No, they'll never admit fault in any of this. Yes, I'm deeply disappointed, but I will never give in to their ways. I will never give up.

It doesn't seem this can be corrected at the ballot box. No, it seems the inevitable outcome is hurtling toward us. An outcome which will cause much misery. My only hope is for the people who cause this to suffer greatly. I hope they rue their decisions. However, I don't believe they have that capacity. I can hope, but I'm not optimistic.

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:
The only thing that calms me is knowing this is a VERY small minority making a big noise. Just 30 miles away and it is like none of it exists. I see all sort of PRO police posts in my “suburban” and the local politicians are not supporting or entertaining the defund nonsense.

I understand they got shut out of Snohomish pretty quick. What I’m worried about is if the officer who knelt on Floyd walks. According to the autopsy reports, he had a fatal dose of fentanyl. My question to older members here, how close to a widespread “LA riot” situation do you feel we are in?

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
^^^ The theory is that if everything else falls apart then any organized group, no matter how small, is in a position to take control. Think of it as a sort of psychological vestigial tail - they know they're a distinct minority, they know (at one level or another) that they'll never be a majority even if they win, and this is just (as far as they theorize) another application of asymmetrical warfare.

If that is truly the case, then these people are even bigger mental morons than I think they are. Even a small, minority based group would need to have the power to force compliance from the larger group. They neither have the numbers nor the ability to accomplish that outcome thanks once again to the 2A of the Constitution which up until now has provided all of us the means and ability to push back if things actually came to that. That isn't going to change regardless what these fools attempt.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
What I’m worried about is if the officer who knelt on Floyd walks. According to the autopsy reports, he had a fatal dose of fentanyl.

The fentanyl is almost irrelevant. From my review of this, the officer will most certainly 'not' be found guilty, not because of his behavior or the fentanyl, but because of the charges filed against the officer. I believe that absolute moron Keith Ellison charged him with first degree murder to try and appease the mob. There is simply no way the circumstances support that charge. So just like what happened in the Freddie Gray officer trials, the charges couldn't be proven and the officers walked.

this problem started long before George Floyd - its been festering for at least a decade, if not longer

this country needs a societal reset and its not going to be pretty

the next few months are going to be rough - for example I was out driving around the other night and I noticed that the city has become populated with a lot of electioneering signs...but it seems like a lot of the republican signs have been either destroyed or pushed over so they're not visible...just a coincidence that democrat signs don't seem to suffer that problem

its going to be a tough election cycle through November 3rd, but its going to be really bad after that - what we've seen up till now is just the surface

the ONLY way to deal with violence is with an overwhelming application of violence

given the ferocity in Seattle, how long do you think it will be before the 'peaceful protestors' will start to employ IED's? They've already shown that they're capable of just about everything else

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
..then these people are even bigger mental morons than I think they are.

Agreed, but that tells you something about how weak they actually are. Their model is essentially the Commie thugs in the Weimar Republic and the Red Guards/Maoist Youth, and they can't quite go to the trouble to sort out all the details about what actually happened and what therefore actually did or did not work. Remember, these idiots grew up thinking that being forced to do their homework was somehow "oppression".

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
this problem started long before George Floyd - its been festering for at least a decade, if not longer

this country needs a societal reset and its not going to be pretty

the next few months are going to be rough - for example I was out driving around the other night and I noticed that the city has become populated with a lot of electioneering signs...but it seems like a lot of the republican signs have been either destroyed or pushed over so they're not visible...just a coincidence that democrat signs don't seem to suffer that problem

its going to be a tough election cycle through November 3rd, but its going to be really bad after that - what we've seen up till now is just the surface

the ONLY way to deal with violence is with an overwhelming application of violence

given the ferocity in Seattle, how long do you think it will be before the 'peaceful protestors' will start to employ IED's? They've already shown that they're capable of just about everything else

I hope you are wrong but I wouldn't bet on it.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
given the ferocity in Seattle, how long do you think it will be before the 'peaceful protestors' will start to employ IED's? They've already shown that they're capable of just about everything else

They are already using mortar fireworks wrapped with nails as grenades. That is an IED.

quote:

Originally posted by Timdogg6:

Never in my life did I think politicians would allow this much unrest without calling out the water cannons.

Water cannons and unleashing the hounds seem to be off the table, bad optics ju ju from 60's civil rights demonstrations. As such, no napalm either.

I've heard about crowd control methods but have not seen any used. Maybe others can inform on stuff like ADS --

Time for rioters to 'feel the burn' of the 'Crowd Buster' tool

I've also heard of sound based crowd control tools, perhaps others. Maybe we're holding off using such things now for maximum effect later. It would seem the first use would considerably limit the next day's participation at that particular location.

Mark Levin has been pushing a notion I hoped would gain traction but so far hasn't The America haters are traitors, put them on their heels. They are this country's enemies and work to destroy it, couldn't be simpler. Ignoring the legal ramifications of treason, make those bastards OWN it. Not that it would open discussions, make it clear to all -- including themselves -- who they are. Hashing out what follows becomes clearer than black and white, fuck parsing.

It doesn't address the corruption of news, education, entertainment, it's a start.

And oh yeah, along those lines,support Sen. Tom Cottton's deligitimization of the incredibly toxic and destructive 1619 Project.

Thank you Para for opening this thread.

I am extremely concerned with the current state of affairs in this country. Among many issues, we just learned that our school district is limiting in-classroom days to two a week. My son will be a junior and is high academic achiever and is taking all his math, science, bio and chem classes at GHP, Honors and college level, and there is NFW that he is getting the same quality education now. No labs of any kind either. Our children, their education and by extension their future is being STOLEN from them. Same concerns with my daughter going into 7th grade.

COLD ANGER!

As far as the state of our country in general, we are watching history unfold as it repeats itself, and it SCARES the mother loving crap out of me. The same exact tactics employed by Commies, socialist’s, tyrants and murderous dictator’s and other extreme and heavy handed governments in relatively recent history are being deployed here to divide our society and foment absolute rage and hate between our citizen’s.

Frankly, the parallels are extremely disturbing to me.

This video may have previously been posted on SIGforum but I don’t think so. It is a 15 min YouTube of a Yugoslavian Woman delivering a warning to American’s based on her experiences in her home country and what is unfolding here now.

“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.” - Thomas Paine

Rob

quote:

Originally posted by coloradohunter44:
The hypocrisy and blatant disregard for our laws by the left is to me what is most disgusting. I pray that the silent majority have had quite enough and will stand up both at the ballot box, and anywhere else deemed necessary to finally squash this violent attack on our nation.

Very well said and so true.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
..then these people are even bigger mental morons than I think they are.

Agreed, but that tells you something about how weak they actually are. Their model is essentially the Commie thugs in the Weimar Republic and the Red Guards/Maoist Youth...

And again, if that's the case and their gameplan, then they've left out one pretty big and important issue they should be thinking about....the millions of guns and billions (if not trillions) of rounds of ammo in private hands right now. Again, to their credit those old wiley men in the 1700's provided us a means to respond to such behavior. And the 'oppressed' youth and malcontents won't like that response one bit (as the cockroaches scurry into the darkness in terror).

These “morons” have the backing of money. They are also backed by law enforcement and local governments. The mayor proclaims all guns are to be turned in within city limits. Appointed police chief gives the order to confiscate all guns. They have already proven what they think of the constitution. So that small group has grown with arms and you set without.

In anticipation of the opening of this thread, I began preparing a post I entitled, "Insurgency, Counterinsurgency, and You." I intended it to be a culmination of my current understanding of the events we see un-folding, and my attempt to put it into perspective and what I can do about it. Unfortunately, I have not had time to polish the documents, nor complete it's intended purpose. So, with some trepidation and that caveat, here is the beginning of that post:


Insurgency, Counterinsurgency, and You.

As with many others in this forum and country at large, I have been struggling with the lurch to the left that my country has been experiencing the last decade. The history, events, and underlying social dynamics underlying this lurch are interesting in their own right, but off topic for this post. I don’t think many would disagree that the election of Obama in 2008 emboldened the left and accelerated the US towards a totalitarian socialist regime. President Trump is clubhauling us away from that destruction, which the left is now violently opposing.

It is not uncommon to see/hear references to the Founding Fathers and other historical figures in their fight for liberty, or defiance of an aggressor. The phrases, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants,” “Give me liberty or give me death,”“Molon Labe,” “Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.” Uttering such expressions may make us feel good, but they mean nothing without action. In normal times, the political process provides a peaceful mechanism for the give and take that is necessary in governing a society. We do this by voting, donating to political campaigns, and writing letters and exercising our 1st Amendment rights. This process only works if the “free press” is really free, and not corrupted by one political party. It works if the government enforces its laws equally, not use them differentially to attack their political opponents. What happens when the other side cheats, and the normal course of action is so corrupted as to be compromised in its ability to function as designed? Now what action do we take? This is where the difficult part comes. How do we know when action is required? Who is the action directed against? What form of action should we take? In retrospect, from the distance of time and conglomeration of events by historical scholars, it seems easy to know the answers to these questions. But, how does one know when one is in the midst of it? We believe we are better than the leftists because we believe in law-and-order, peaceful assembly, and a non-violent, though perhaps raucous, political debate. The leftists don’t play “by the rules.” They do not accept the results of the political process, they adopt criminal mindsets to pursue their objectives. They have co-opted portions of the government and mechanisms of the political process. Are we in a civil war? It doesn’t really seem so. The political views are clearly defined, but the populations and organizations are’t clear. There isn’t an organization that claims itself to be an alternative governing body, nor a claim to territory. Are we fighting a revolution? If we are, what side are we? I am not fighting my government, so I am not a rebel. At the same time, the leftists have infested our government, and are only attacking certain elements of the government. They seek to take it over, not destroy it and replace it. The answer, I believe, is we are fighting an insurgency. Understanding the situation is the first step in being able to evaluate what we see happening before ue, and perhaps ultimately guide us to what actions we, as civilians, can take to bring us back to civil society.

Searching the Internet, I found a joint Army/Marine publication entitled “Insurgencies and Countering Insurgencies,” FM 3-24/MCWP 3-33.5, C1. While this document is for Soldiers and Marines deployed to fight insurgents in a foreign land, it provides an overview of what insurgencies look like, what counterinsurgency (COIN) techniques are used, and of particular importance to me, how the civilian population fits into a COIN operation(*). The latter provides a back drop and framework to think about how can I, as a patriot and citizen, fit into the fight against the insurgents. Most of the manual, of course, focuses on things military/government personnel do, and not particularly relevant to my own action. Still, it is helpful in interpreting the actions of our government as it fights the insurgency. I believe that the Trump Administration does, in fact, understand that we are fighting an insurgency, even if they don’t publicly use those words. Our best efforts should be directed in helping Trump win the insurgency.

* I provide the link to the current publication dated 2014. In some ways, I found the earlier version published in 2006 to be easier to relate to the civilian's perspective of the current situation. The more recent manual is probably better for its intended audience - Army/Marine officers fighting COIN, but that makes it a little less helpful to me. Unfortunately, I do not have a link to the 2006 version of FM 3-24 entitled simply, "Counterinsurgency."

Links to current publications of interest:
[1] https://armypubs.army.mil/epub...a/pdf/web/fm3_24.pdf
https://www.jcs.mil/Doctrine/J...0-Operations-Series/

If anyone is interested in discussing the thoughts of this post, I suggest using [1] as a common source of terminology and reference, in particular Chapter 4. One can simply refer to the numbered paragraphs for complete context. For example, in discussing the Portland riots, we see this as an example of the left employing the urban/terrorist approach to insurgency, as described in paragraph 4-42:

"The urban (terrorist) approach is an approach in which insurgents attack government and symbolic targets (for example an important religious building) to cause government forces to overreact against the population. The insurgents want the government’s repressive measures to enrage the people so that they rise up and overthrow the government. Although this type of method may develop popular support against a government that is particularly brutal or corrupt, it may only result in shallow support for the insurgency. The population may only see the insurgency positively because of the brutal response, not because they identify with the insurgency."

quote:

Originally posted by Timdogg6:
I hope and pray that DJT wins again, but if and when he does what's next. I think that only ratchets up this nonsense and we get this crap for 4 more years??? That's kind of crazy to think we need this mess going on that long.

The most important thing is for Trump to get re-elected. Then effectively deal with the radical commies from a position of strength. We have to support our system and gain an advantage in it, especially getting back the House and hanging on to the Senate.

My biggest issue is that the left, due the full and active support of the media, is driving the focus and clearly and solely aiming at the election.

Those of us who are in the mainstream and conservative MAJORITY need to keep calling this out, vociferously and every single day. The left has co-opted the national discussion, and WE are letting them get away with it by responding -- the "protests" are now riots, cities are de-stabilized and dangerous, where crime is skyrocketing, law enforcement personnel are being injured at an alarming rate, the dollar is being devalued, and these and other facts need to be brought to light and confronted.

My wife cancelled the local newspaper this week, explaining to them that they had finally worn her out with their incessant and tasteless anti-Trump political cartoons. It was a small gesture, but $ talks, and we need to be consistent in our actions, and in our rejection of the anarchist, Marxist, un-American political and social mentality.

Rant paused...

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:They are already using mortar fireworks wrapped with nails as grenades. That is an IED.

Yes indeed.

At least the headline didn't try to call it a protest or, demonstration but, used the R-I-O-T word.
Police seize weapons from Saturday’s riot in Seattle

Portland had its own discovery of 'what to bring to a protest'
https://www.instagram.com/p/CD...?igshid=sppgfwexledy

Using leaf blowers and umbrellas to manage the cloud of chemical dispersants is pretty cleaver. Such imagery needs to be disseminated to all the fence-sitters, as continued evidence that those who wish to 'burn it down' are doing so with the truest of intentions.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
The most important thing is for Trump to get re-elected.

There's another even more important layer to that assertion, Trump needs to be re-elected by big numbers. The media is already cultivating the assumption this will be a razor close election. If that happens, they've laid the groundwork for further escalation of the BS we see now. If Trump wins election big, and the Repub's retake the House and hold the Senate majority, that tends to throw water on the fires this filth are setting. Everyone needs to get out and vote for Trump. A landslide win in the face of a corrupt media and lying Dem's will go a long way to creating the base we need to fight and defeat this insurgancy (as Dr Dan put it).

Hey, as if we didn't have enough morons throwing out their chicken chests (a reference my uncle used to use frequently) we now have this...

UN Human rights office decries disproportionate use of force in US protests

We are starting to see it, folks who love America are having their fill of these Marxists anarchists who are destroying certain cities.
I am seeing more photos of stand offs between armed patriots and these thugs.

Folks who have jobs and kids at home are getting tired of having freeways shut down from these "peaceful protests".

I saw video from Aurora CO. where Marxist thugs started shooting at a jeep who was pushing his way through their protest on the highway.
This action only resulted in other Marxist thugs being hit by rounds from this trigger happy thug.

In Austin TX there was an AK wielding white dude at BLM rally who got shot by a person in an automobile who was stopped by these thugs.

Lets be prepared for when the narrative begins in the media that our side (working tax payers) are using guns on peaceful protesters and that is a reason to change Carry laws, eliminate private sales, roll back castle Doctrine, etc.

We need to be vocal with our Federal and State level representatives that this will not be tolerated.

HK Ag