Blue suicide, but the attacker, I'm certain, thought he was going to get the deputy to shoot him. Instead, the deputy used a knife he had on his person, and stabbed him repeatedly during the struggle for the deputy's gun.

In the comments section, someone says that this is "weird". It's not weird so much as it is highly unusual. "Tactical" knives are sold everywhere these days, and I imagine most officers carry a knife. I wonder if people even stop to think that such knives are not intended for the opening of letters and packages, but are intended for use in desperate circumstances such as we see here.

The video on Twitter is restricted and can't be embedded.

Link: https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1923140447196631477

"The Clark County Sheriff's Office in Washington state has released the tragic body camera footage showing the moments leading to an officer stabbing a suspect to death while in custody on May 7.

The deceased man, Marc Fogle, was arrested on suspicion of driving while intoxicated. Fogle was a commercial driver who believed his life would be over with a DUI record. He became physical with Deputy Bryson Layton before being stabbed to death.

Layton has been placed on automatic leave while the death is under investigation."

Not weird at all, and only unusual due to the infrequency of that actually being necessary.

Knives are commonly carried by cops specifically as lethal force options for use against attackers trying to take your gun.

That was drilled in my head during the academy and FTO: Always carry a knife on your offhand side, so you can deploy and use it while your primary hand is clamped on your gun protecting it from a grab. It's something we practiced.

Deadly force isn't just bullets (though that's often the fastest and most efficient way to apply it in most scenarios). In broad strokes, deadly force is deadly force, and if you're justified in using deadly force in that moment you're justified in shooting them, stabbing them, clubbing them in the head, choking them, running them over with a car, spearing them with a harpoon, throwing them out of an airplane, etc. It just has to be reasonable for that particular situation.

Stabbing someone to death who is trying to take your gun away and kill you is reasonable and justified.

It's not okay to attack a police officer. I guess Mr. Fogle got the point.


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I always thought that the KA-BAR TDI would be a good “get off me” defensive knife. It wouldn’t of course be of much use for stabbing, but in addition to its being easy to carry it would offer good retention and control when slashing the exposed parts of an attacker.

https://www.kabar.com/p/1480

Years ago an shoplifter (illegal)grabbed my gun, after I tasered him and it didn’t work. 4-5 minutes later I was finally able to beat him into cuffs, we caused about $5k worth of damage and he had a fractured skull and I had broken ribs.

I learned a few things that day, it dawned on me that I was stuck in arrest this fuck mode vs, he’s trying to kill me when he grabbed my gun. I ordered a safemaker II from cold steel that night and carried it behind my mag pouch from that day on. I would tell the new guys about it so they might avoid it themselves. And I knew if it ever happened again I would have just stabbed him in the neck repeatedly. I bought a blue book(cheat sheet for regular charges) and a safemaker II for every rookie I had after that

When someone grabs your gun, you gotta do everything you can to keep it. even though we had safariland triple retention holsters, he managed to rotate the hood back and begin twisting it to get the gun out defeating 2 of the 3. I was busy shoving it into the holster with my right hand and beating about the head with the taser until it broke.

Glad this deputy made it. My guy got 6-8 mo for attempted theft of a firearm and was deported. I saw him within a week of his deportation back in town.

Looks like they removed the video. Either way, good on the officer for protecting himself. Bad guy fucked around and found out.

The post is still there, as is the video.

I don't have X so it doesn't load for me. Must be this one?

https://www.columbian.com/news...fatally-stabbed-him/

quote:

The Clark County Sheriff's Office in Washington state has released the tragic body camera footage showing the moments leading to an officer stabbing a suspect to death while in custody on May 7.

quote:

Originally posted by TigerDore:
It's not okay to attack a police officer. I guess Mr. Fogle got the point.


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Pretty sure he got the whole thing with a few encores…

Indeed less weird than unusual. Many (probably most) weapon retention techniques emphasize trying to keep the gun in the holster and or control the grab hand with the strong hand while fighting the attacker with the other hand. Stabbing the hell out of him seems like a pretty reasonable way to go about it.

I feel for the deputy on this one. Stabbing a guy to death is probably a much heavier lift psychologically.

Yes knives are good.
But not all knives are good.

During a bad fight, I tried to get my pocket folder into play but my hands were so sweaty, I couldn't get it flipped open. It was a tiny HK branded Benchmade Ally knife.

These days, I carry a Ka-Bar TDI knife (amusingly also HK branded) behind my magazine pouch.

quote:

I feel for the deputy on this one. Stabbing a guy to death is probably a much heavier lift psychologically.

Not to mention messier, and he's likely having to undergo a testing regimen at this point to make sure he didn't catch anything from that scumbag's blood .

Whatever knife he had seems to have made a good defensive knife. I’d get one of those.

Thinking about situations like these, folding knives suddenly don't look so hot.

Depends on the folding knife.

A basic liner lock? Not so much.

But there are a number of knives with stouter folding mechanisms that won't fail when subjected to hard use, and which can be deployed with one hand.

How terrible for that officer

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
Thinking about situations like these, folding knives suddenly don't look so hot.

why not? better than nothing and more unobtrusive for casual carry

I started carrying a fixed blade knife 2 years ago. I've been carrying a spyderco of some sort for the better part of 30 years and that's come out of my pocket as of late and a fixed blade is in my belt unless I'm getting on an airplane, at which point the knife goes in my checked bag.

There are times I don't feel like carrying a gun, but the knife is always with me.

Sorry this cop had to resort to this, but he had no choice.

I carry a knife of some sort almost all the time. A variety of cheap to not so cheap folders and assisted openers. Sometimes a utility/boxcutter type. I see them as a tool, and in a pinch maybe a weapon of last resort.

I came across this quote years ago, no idea who said it as the photo it accompanied didn’t credit the author. Not that I necessarily consider myself “living up” to what it says, but it struck me as one of those “how to simply sum up today’s complex world in a few sentences” kind of things and I made a point to save it.

Seems appropriate here.

“So, who are the kind of men who carry pocket knives today? They are typically utilitarian. They are the type of men who work hard for a living, fix what is broken, and stand fearless in the face of a world full of evil. To put it simply, they are the type of men that I feel this world needs more of.

If you find yourself in a tight spot and need some help, just ask the guy with the pocket knife. Although they are few and far between these days, chances are he can and will be able to help you out.”

I carried a folding knife or two but when I first started out in LE, I never really paid much attention where I had them stashed.

I then went to a defensive survival course back in my hometown of Col, OH. It was taught by a couple of Dublin OH officers.

That course opened my eyes and I learned a lot.

That is when I started carrying two and moved the one from my back pocket.

When we finished the course we were given a KA-BAR TDI.