quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by BurtonRW:

Unless Jim is willing to give it to you, do NOT do this. As far as he's concerned, he's the bona fide owner of that amp and all that the police will care about is that you removed it from his property without permission. That is ALL they will care about.

Your action in small claims court, if you went that way, would be against Jim and maybe your brother, but you would certainly not proceed against your brother without Jim as a defendant.

Read my signature line and then go consult a Pennsyltucky lawyer for qualified, local advice.

-Rob

A lot of the advice in the thread, other than Burton's, is in the "specatacularly wrong" category.

First - is it worth what the legal process will cost. Assume it will cost about $5000 to $8,000 for a lawyer, or 15 to 30 hours of your time in small claims court. Then decide.

But, here is what I see as the law, although I am Texas lawyer, not one in Pennsyltucky.

The buyer may not have good title - you don't get good title from a thief. Even an innocent buyer from a thief is not the new owner. But is your brother a thief? There will be plenty of ambiguity about that - was it a loan, a gift, a what?

So, you could certainly sue your brother, the current "owner" and any intermediaries. You probably won't get your attorney's fees, unless your state has a statute giving them to you. Most states don't allow fees to be recovered in tort suits.

Or is this a bailment? Did you give the amp to your brother to hold for you? What duty does he owe you? If that is true, I am really at a loss to know what your state allows as a remedy between you and the end buyer, if any. The lapse of time may, or may not matter.

In short, this is a far more complex legal situation than it may appear. It wouldn't make a bad hypothetical for a law school exam - in terms of sorting out who owes who what and on what theory of recovery.

If this is Jim Marshall's first 100 watt head, it may be worth the money to sort it out. If it isn't, you'll have to think about how much this is worth to you.

As a matter of fairness, I think your brother should buy you a new amp. That is a likely legal result, too, but how you get there would be interesting. Maybe you can get that specific amp back, but that is a lot less certain to me.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
To Marks defense.

The amp is his, no matter how much "ownership" the guy who came to posses it has invested in it.

It was not his brother's to give.

Certainly it was not abandoned, it was an open ended "loan". That "loan" has not been modified.

Not a month, a year, a decade or a century.

If I were a judge and it hit my court, the property would be returned as is, and the brother and the other guy could work out their problem in the parking lot. (but I would probably know a lot more about law, too...)


That said, I have no trouble scorching bridges.

The path in front of me is well illuminated by the burning bridges behind me.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
And, for the record, I don't think you are in the wrong. Just the contrary. But vindicating your rights may be harder than it is worth.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:
And, for the record, I don't think you are in the wrong. Just the contrary. But vindicating your rights may be harder than it is worth.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
The short answer is "no, you can't have it. Get over it."

This was the friend I posted about in the past that would always avoid me, not accept calls, never return texts. I always wondered what I did. Now I know, he was avoiding me due to guilt. He's a thief in my eyes and I'm better off without him.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
The short answer is "no, you can't have it. Get over it."

This was the friend I posted about in the past that would always avoid me, not accept calls, never return texts. I always wondered what I did. Now I know, he was avoiding me due to guilt. He's a thief in my eyes and I'm better off without him.

Honestly, the real fault falls on your brother. Your brother may have sold it to Jim. I doubt your brother giving his financial situation gave it to Jim. But either way it's a real crappy situation.

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
The short answer is "no, you can't have it. Get over it."

quote:

Originally posted by mark123:
I'll probably complain some more and then move on. Thanks for listening.

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
If it has really been "many years"...

1. How can you even claim it?

2. As many hands/years as it has passed through do you REALLY have a claim....

If it was that imprtant, why loan it. If not, who cares. Write them off as a friend and call it a deal....

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
1. You asked a "legal" question in your post, not a moral question. I then simply asked for clarification.

2. Again, asking for clarification, I neither excused or judged ANYONE... and I resent the implication...

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:
If it has really been "many
1. How can you even claim it?

2. As many hands/years as it has passed through do you REALLY have a claim....

If it was that imprtant, why loan it. If not, who cares. Write them off as a friend and call it a deal....

quote:

Originally posted by bionic218:
Sorry to hear this, Mark.

More than the loss of property, it really sucks that some of the people you should be able to count on most to have your back, don't. A man should be able to fall back on his brother or his friends, but I guess some vintage amp (or the measly few hundred bucks it brought them at the time) is more important to them than you are - which really sucks.

I hope you get the gig - with the cover band, and I hope your luck takes a turn. Living well really is the best revenge.