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W07VH5 |
Probably around $2500 No, but there is no mistaking this is my amp. It's easily identifiable and neither Jim nor my brother will deny it. Brother let Jim know I'm interested in having it back. I don't care if he asks for me to reimburse him for the repairs he had done. I'm good with that. | |||
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| W07VH5 |
Yeah, I'm sure this is one of those points where legality and morality go their separate ways. | |||
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| Just because you can, doesn't mean you should |
This. Part of the school of hard knocks. Sounds like it wasn't worth much in the condition it was in when you "gave" it to your brother. The legal process would be a real long shot and a lot of hassle for what? Go on with your life and don't do it again. ___________________________ Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible. | |||
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It seemed like a good idea... |
10 years? Did you ever have any intention of getting it back from him? Or just now because you know he got rid of it. After 10 years, he probably thought it was his to do as he wished with. Still shitty, but 10 years is a long time to "borrow" something. -Jay "Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware." -Alan Korwin | |||
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A Grateful American |
Sonny: What’s the matter? C: This guy “Louie Dumps” owes me 20 dollars. It’s been two weeks now, and every time he sees me he keeps dodging me. He’s becoming a real pain in the ass. I mean, should I crack him one or what? Sonny: What’s the matter with you? What have I been telling you? Sometimes hurting somebody ain’t the answer. Is he a good friend of yours? C: No, I don’t even like him. Sonny: Well there’s your answer right there. Look at it this way… It costs you 20 dollars to get rid of him. He’s never gonna bother you again. He’s never gonna ask you for money again. He’s out of your life for 20 dollars. You got off cheap. Forget it. — A Bronx Tale For the cost of an amp, you are rid of two deadbeats. Sometimes life imitates art. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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| Administrator |
The issue I can see (besides what's already listed) is proving your case. If Jim has a receipt from your brother, that makes him a bona fide purchaser. You say he knew the amp wasn't your brother's to sell, but given what you've said about your relationship with Jim, it's unlikely that he's going corroborate your point of view. Did you have anything in writing between yourself and your brother that granted him a license to use the amp? That would basically be a rental agreement that the amp is Mark123's but bro can use it to make music (this would mean he did not have the right to sell it or dispose of it). 10 years ago is a long time, without someone or some writing in the mix to back up what you are saying, it's going to be tough proving your case, and you're not the one in possession of the amp. | |||
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| W07VH5 |
Bro is a pro player. I thought he was still using it. I've been out of the scene for a long time. Just getting back into it. Need my amp back. | |||
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| It seemed like a good idea... |
Ah, I see. I agree with you. Its a shitty deal for sure. Hope you can get something figured out. Thats a sweet amp. -Jay "Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware." -Alan Korwin | |||
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| The success of a solution usually depends upon your point of view |
i think you need to move on. You have not had the amp for 10 years. You weren't even looking to get it back until you saw it in the other guy's collection. You are not in any worse shape then you were in before you stopped by to see the other guy and if you didn't see his collection you would not have thought about getting your amp back. Put it behind you and move on. If it helps you move forward, use it as an excuse to write your brother off. “We truly live in a wondrous age of stupid.” - 83v45magna "I think it's important that people understand free speech doesn't mean free from consequences societally or politically or culturally." -Pranjit Kalita, founder and CIO of Birkoa Capital Management | |||
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| W07VH5 |
Thanks for the advice, friends. I'm not going to go "steal" my stuff back but I have begun the process of dealing with the current possessor via my brother. If I lose it, I lose it. It's old, troublesome and a bit unreliable but I'd really like to have my stuff back in my possession. I've never been ripped off by strangers, but family and friends, pfft. | |||
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| W07VH5 |
In my defense, I thought my brother was borrowing it for a long time and I was ok with that. No one told me it was being sold. Not sure why everyone is laying the blame on me. How would you answer these questions: If you borrowed something from your relative and someone offered you money for it would you sell it? Then when they ask for it back would you just blame them for letting you borrow it for a long time? | |||
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| The success of a solution usually depends upon your point of view |
Sorry, I don't mean to come across as putting any blame on you, you definitely got the shitty end of this. My point was simply that you might consider accepting that shit happens and you probably won't be able to fix this the way you would like it fixed so instead of putting your energies into this situation you put it behind you and focus on other, more productive things. It doesn't sound like you lose much by writing off all three of the people. “We truly live in a wondrous age of stupid.” - 83v45magna "I think it's important that people understand free speech doesn't mean free from consequences societally or politically or culturally." -Pranjit Kalita, founder and CIO of Birkoa Capital Management | |||
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| W07VH5 |
I am a bit miffed about it but I'm willing to let it go and write everyone off. I've dumped friends for similar things in the past. I'd rather have the amp than these people in my life. So that would be ideal. The friends that had it at his house is innocent, I'd say but he's tight with Jim and nixxing Jim I may as well just let him go, too. | |||
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His Royal Hiney |
This post sums it best for me. "Don't go down a road that doesn't lead to anyplace good." The OP was good with the fact that the amp hasn't been in his possession for the last 10 years. It's just in a different place than where he thought it was. But I can understand also. I sold a car at minimal price, I think I might have even given it for free. I gave it to a friend in hopes of helping him out. Then I come to find out he turned around and gave it to one of his brothers. I was offended because I gave him a good deed to do him a good deed, not so that he could be a "hero" to somebody else. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
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| When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor |
Doing so front the defendant's chair in a court of law is going to be difficult. Meanwhile you're fighting a Burglary and Theft charge that will probably stick. Can you make a case for the fact that you didn't give him the item? You made no effort to have it returned while in his possession. You really have no where to go here. At best it would be a civil case between you and your brother. The courts are not going to be very sympathetic after that length of time being involved. | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
Shitty deal. I hope you get it back with minimal hassle. If not, it's a relatively cheap lesson (in the broad sense) regarding who deserves your friendship or not. A loan isn't a gift, and I'd want it back, too, were it me. | |||
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Corgis Rock |
It's a 37 year old amp. Technology has, no doubt, changed significantly. In fact, it now resides n someone's "collection." How much would it cost to buy a 37 year old amp? Assuming you could find one. You discover the amp by accident. It seems your weren't visiting your brother and weren't contacting him to get the amp returned. When was the last time you and your brother discussed the amp, much less picking it up? Had he tossed it into the dumpster, would you ever know it? Had you asked and got the reply, "It wasn't working anymore," would you have raised a stink? “ The work of destruction is quick, easy and exhilarating; the work of creation is slow, laborious and dull. | |||
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| W07VH5 |
It's a 45 year old amp. I don't expect you to know about guitar amps but no. There have been some changes in noise reduction but the desirable circuits are mostly the same. Not sure how that's relevant or my fault. In it's unrestored condition probably $3000, to find one that's restored (more likely) up to $5000. Please explain why it matters? Had I not discovered it, I would have expected MY amp to be where it should be. Absolutely. Up until recently, I had no need to ask for it's return. Now I'm auditioning for a cover band and would like to have it back and it being discovered out of place is simply coincidence. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
A lot of the advice in the thread, other than Burton's, is in the "specatacularly wrong" category. First - is it worth what the legal process will cost? Assume it will cost about $5000 to $8,000 for a lawyer, or 15 to 30 hours of your time in small claims court. Then decide. But, here is what I see as the law, or at least the issues involved, although I am Texas lawyer, not one in Pennsyltucky. The buyer may not have good title - you don't get good title from a thief. Even an innocent buyer from a thief is not the new owner. But is your brother a thief? There will be plenty of ambiguity about that - was it a loan, a gift, a what? It seems clear to you, but in court, everyone will offer a theory, and which can be proved may be harder to predict than you think. But you, as the plaintiff will bear the burden to prove your theory. So, you could certainly sue your brother, the current "owner" and any intermediaries. You probably won't get your attorney's fees, unless your state has a statute giving them to you. Most states don't allow fees to be recovered in tort suits. Or is this a bailment? Did you give the amp to your brother to hold for you? What duty does he owe you? If that is true, I am really at a loss to know what your state allows as a remedy between you and the end buyer, if any. The lapse of time is going to cause you a problem because of the statute of limitations. Your causes of action may have lapsed years ago. But maybe you have an argument that the limitations period hasn't run. In short, this is a far more complex legal situation than it may appear. It wouldn't make a bad hypothetical for a law school exam - in terms of sorting out who owes who what and on what theory of recovery. If this is Jim Marshall's first 100 watt head, it may be worth the money to sort it out. If it isn't, you'll have to think about how much this is worth to you. As a matter of fairness, I think your brother should buy you a new amp. That is a likely legal result, too, but how you get there would be interesting. Maybe you can get that specific amp back, but that is a lot less certain to me. If you can't solve this without a court, I'd probably suggest a potential client of mine put the cost of the litigation into a new amp.This message has been edited. Last edited by: jhe888, The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| A Grateful American |
To Marks defense. The amp is his, no matter how much "ownership" the guy who came to posses it has invested in it. It was not his brother's to give. Certainly it was not abandoned, it was an open ended "loan". That "loan" has not been modified. Not a month, a year, a decade or a century. If I were a judge and it hit my court, the property would be returned as is, and the brother and the other guy could work out their problem in the parking lot. (but I would probably know a lot more about law, too...) That said, I have no trouble scorching bridges. The path in front of me is well illuminated by the burning bridges behind me. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא שוב! | |||
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