Anyone notice that all of these people in the article live in and around Chicago?

Perhaps that's part of the problem they face.
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Dude, the article is written by a Chicago reporter and was published in the Chicago Sun Times.

There are exactly TWO things to blame for this disaster:

1) The cultural notion that blue-collar jobs are somehow "lesser" than those that need a college degree. This is something that needs to be fought tooth-and-nail, and folks like Mike Rowe are doing just that. It's sadly too late for the Millenials, but hopefully it won't be for the kids just coming into school.

2) Basically FREE money that is given to students and schools. There is ZERO incentive for them to do anything other than suck up the cash. Damn the torpedoes!!

I went to the local 4 year college in town back in the mid 90s. It cost me $3k a year. When my son was there in 2010, it was around $15k a year!

He dropped out and joined the Army. Said he wasn't taking on the debt.

I paid off my college debt about six years after I finished. Stupid useless physics/mathematics degree doesn't do much for me in law enforcement.

My exwife is still paying. She went as far as a masters but she's making decent money so it worked out for her (and me, no alimony or child support )

My daughter has two years of high school left, she says she plans on skipping college and going straight into the military. She's learning how to take care of herself. She's working on getting her driver's license (she's only 15.5) and today, I showed her how to change the oil and rotate the tires and what to do in case of a flat. If it didn't look like rain, I would've made her wash and wax the car.

A former neighbor in Tucson was taking classes at Pima CC and getting student loans.

She took much of the money to purchase a new high end Jeep and a nice Boob job.

I wasn't impressed with the Jeep......but, IMO cost of the other "items" was money went spent.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
Some facts: An undergraduate student who is viewed as a dependent by their parents by .gov can *only* take out a *maximum* of $27,000 in federal loans for a 4-year degree. The entire rest of the cost of the 4-year degree *must* be paid for in cash or by loans taken out by the student's parents. These additional parent loans can be co-signed by the student, but they must be in the parents' name. There's no way around it. So I *really* don't understand how so many people around the country say that students end up with $100,000+ student loans for a 4-year degree, when all they can take out is $27,000. It's all on the parents, not the students. Can someone please explain that to me?

Sources:

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/t...sidized-unsubsidized

https://studentaid.psu.edu/typ...l-direct/loan-limits


Chris

Chris, that’s the cap for Federal Subsidized & Unsubsidized Loans (I believe they are also referred to as “Stafford Loans”.

That’s only a minor chunk of the loans you can take out, normally students who need more will max out the Stafford loan limit as the interest rates are lower and then supplement with a Sallie Mae/PLUS/Other private loan source.

This is an incredibly arcane system for a 17 year old to know anything about.

reloader,

Thanks for the reply. Do you happen to have any more info on these loans you mentioned? I'm specifically looking for loans that are *only* in the student's name, *not* the parents'. The PLUS loan you mentioned is a parent-only loan. Thanks!

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
Some facts: An undergraduate student who is viewed as a dependent by their parents by .gov can *only* take out a *maximum* of $27,000 in federal loans for a 4-year degree. The entire rest of the cost of the 4-year degree *must* be paid for in cash or by loans taken out by the student's parents. These additional parent loans can be co-signed by the student, but they must be in the parents' name. There's no way around it. So I *really* don't understand how so many people around the country say that students end up with $100,000+ student loans for a 4-year degree, when all they can take out is $27,000. It's all on the parents, not the students. Can someone please explain that to me?

Sources:

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/t...sidized-unsubsidized

https://studentaid.psu.edu/typ...l-direct/loan-limits


Chris

Chris, that’s the cap for Federal Subsidized & Unsubsidized Loans (I believe they are also referred to as “Stafford Loans”.

That’s only a minor chunk of the loans you can take out, normally students who need more will max out the Stafford loan limit as the interest rates are lower and then supplement with a Sallie Mae/PLUS/Other private loan source.

This is an incredibly arcane system for a 17 year old to know anything about.

reloader,

Thanks for the reply. Do you happen to have any more info on these loans you mentioned? I'm specifically looking for loans that are *only* in the student's name, *not* the parents'. The PLUS loan you mentioned is a parent-only loan. Thanks!

Chris

Several of the popular lenders have them, I believe. When I went to college I took out $10,000 total. Some was with Discover. Paid it all off as soon as I could.

Funny how you don't hear whining from the people that majored in a tough field, no sniveling from an Engineer or an Accountant because they could not get a job.

That boob job could make her good money if she wanders into a strip club. She could probably pay off the loans more quickly than if she got the degree.

quote:

Originally posted by GWbiker:
A former neighbor in Tucson was taking classes at Pima CC and getting student loans.

She took much of the money to purchase a new high end Jeep and a nice Boob job.

I wasn't impressed with the Jeep......but, IMO cost of the other "items" was money went spent.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBMW,

quote:

Originally posted by alreadydead:
Funny how you don't hear whining from the people that majored in a tough field, no sniveling from an Engineer or an Accountant because they could not get a job.

Yep. My wife's co-worker has a son who did the 5 year plan @ Univ of Colorado for a combined bachelor/masters in Engineering. He did an internship for the defense contractor I work for. They offered him $80k per year right out of school.

Hard work is rewarded!

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
Anyone notice that all of these people in the article live in and around Chicago?

Perhaps that's part of the problem they face.
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Dude, the article is written by a Chicago reporter and was published in the Chicago Sun Times.

I'm aware of that, I grew up in Chicago. My point is that Illinois is not a business friendly environment, not to mention the cost of living and insane taxes in Cook and the collar counties.

Perhaps if these youngins relocated to a more business friendly location, perhaps they could find a job with a decent starting salary and reasonable cost of living.

Saw the article below, and it reminded me of this thread.

Nine out of 10 new jobs are going to those with a college degree

Nine of out ten new jobs created in the last year have gone to those with a college degree, a finding showing the American economy’s growing reliance on a trained workforce as well as the changing demographics of the country.

A three-month average finds that 91% of the net increase in jobs held by those at least 25 years old are filled by those with at least a bachelor’s degree, according to data compiled by MarketWatch using the May jobs report released by the Labor Department on Friday.

That American employers want a higher educated workforce is not a new trend — there’s been a premium in wages for the college-educated since the early 1980s. But the most recent recession seems to have accelerated the divide.

Despite some lurches here and there, difficulty for those without a higher education has been the norm since the U.S. entered the worst economic period since the Great Depression at the end of 2007.

Anthony Carnevale, director of Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce, said the recent data fits the pattern since the recession, which is to show rising employment for those with at least bachelor’s degree, more muted gains for those with some college education, and a decline in employment by those with a high school degree or less.


The number of workers with a college degree has risen by 12 million since the recession, while the number with a high-school degree or less has fallen by more than 4 million.
Part of what is happening is what he calls upscaling. Some three-fifths of the 55 million job openings in this decade are to replace retiring baby boomers, according to a Georgetown study that Carnevale co-authored. But employers now will demand these replacements be better trained, rather than let them learn on the job.

“Now the person coming through the door, they’ll demand more education,” he said.

There are varying explanations for what’s going on — from the increasing role of technology and changing organizational structures to the switch from an industrialized economy to a service-oriented one.

America’s new jobs require a combination of decision-making, communications, analysis, and administration skills that are helped by post-secondary training. Fast-growing fields in health, science, technology, engineering and mathematics require these advanced skills.

The fact that new jobs are overwhelmingly going to the college-educated shows the value of the $1.5 trillion in student loans that have been racked up. Georgetown found that two-thirds of the new jobs being created need some post-secondary education, with about a third needing at least a bachelor’s.

One explanation that Carnevale doesn’t give much weight to is the idea that a college degree is just a signal for employers of a candidate’s credentials.

“It’s a weak argument in economics,” he said. “If, over time, the signal is the degree, and if it doesn’t work, the market will adjust.”

A Harvard Business School study finds differently. That study said employers seeking college graduates makes many “middle-skills jobs” harder to fill, and once hired, subjects employers to higher turnover rates as well as increased pay.

With a record number of job openings, there might be something to that. Surveys of employers frequently find complaints about the talent of the work force.

The one thing that could change the dynamic for those without a college degree is if there were a big push toward building infrastructure. “An infrastructure bill would take us back to 1950, it would be a full employment act for high-school graduates,” said Carnevale. He acknowledged it wouldn’t be a panacea, particularly after the infrastructure is actually created.

“At the end of 10 years, the stuff is built, then you have the same issue we have now with manufacturing,” he said. “But you get 10 years of heaven.”

Rex Nutting contributed to this report.

quote:

Originally posted by alreadydead:
Funny how you don't hear whining from the people that majored in a tough field, no sniveling from an Engineer or an Accountant because they could not get a job.

Right here. I worked full time in college, very difficult degree. People I went to university with were all confident with good grades they’d walk from school and get 50k per year jobs without a sweat. I took a crap job in my degreed field that paid less than what I was making at my own business to get experience as a freshman, so I wouldn’t get low balled when I graduated. I offered the same position to friends in school and they barked at the low pay and entry level postion it was. They just didn’t want to work for it. Fast forward 3 years and I’m making triple that starting spring semester of my junior year. With overtime and on call pay quadruple my senior year. Those 3 years were otj training working in my field then my own business on the weekends all while carrying a full load at college. It was hell on Earth, absolutely brutal, no life. Those same clowns started asking me for a job close to graduation and I had to explain to them my boss wouldn’t even give them an interview because they had zero experience. Bought myself my first new car senior year for motivation to finish, and to build my credit, and they didn’t like that much either. Much hate and jealousy. I’d always answer them that momma and daddy didn’t pay for that car, my motorcycle, or for college either, not a nickel, I did. They’d shut right up then.

I remember seeing them dick off at nights, weekends, etc, typical or stereotypical college life. I’d get invited to this or that “Sorry, got to work”. I’d regularly have to do maintenance windows between 12am-6am, or be on call, etc. When I graduated I didn’t have to look for a job, already had it and I had less than 20k in school loan debt. This was almost 20 years ago now so I’m sure these SJW kids today, oh my. It was hard as hell, just as hard today and they are soft. Always looking for the easy route when the correct path is often the most difficult one.