I’d stay home for the undergrad degree, then look west for grad school.

I would see what it takes to be an intern at a mine. Freeport McMoRan is big out here (copper). Few days in class then in field (getting paid) each week for a couple years for the degree. There may be other mines closer to you that offer the same.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Some have mentioned his graduate studies could be paid for. How does that work?

I’ll preface this by saying it is not geology-specific.

Pretty much everywhere, a typical PhD student doesn’t pay tuition and gets paid a small stipend (usually around $20-25k annually, I think). The PhD student is nominally charged tuition, but both the tuition and the stipend are paid out of the research budget of either the department the student is in or of the student’s faculty advisor.

Because of this, PhD programs can be very difficult to get into - at a good private university, between the tuition and stipend, the university is (on paper) paying something like $100k a year for a PhD student. They want to know a prospective PhD student can hack it and get research done. In many fields (not sure about geology), having at least some research experience as an undergrad is almost a requirement.

Terminal master’s degrees (master’s degrees where you get the master’s degree and then leave, rather than the master’s degree being a built-in part of a PhD program) most places do NOT follow this model, and almost always require the student to pay tuition (and are frequently much easier to get into - though depending on the specific program, possibly still very difficult).

I was walking a similar path many many years ago. After I finished my MS in gelogy, I was looking at PhD programs in volcanology. To make a long story short, I ended up not following that path but would be glad to share what I learned. Feel free to email me as I believe it would be way too long to recount everything here on the forum.

FYI - University of South Florida has a geo program and they have 3-4 volcanologists as faculty. May be worth looking into.

https://catalog.usf.edu/previe...?catoid=16&poid=6568

There may be enough scholarship money on offer at some of those schools to make a big dent it the overall out of pocket as well. Applying to them will get to that answer, and then you can decide from the option available including in state.

I have lived the majority of my life in Texas and Oklahoma and know about a dozen geologists that are nearly all retired from the oil & gas industry. Their degrees were from Tulane, UT Austin, U of Arkansas, and Oklahoma University. They all made a VERY good living, although there were ups and downs due to the oil & gas economic cycles. My friend from U of Arkansas that is now retired knew to save for a rainy day. There was a 5 year period during the 80s he could not get a job, but he had 5 years of money saved up, as the good times were so good.

My sister had a roommate at Texas Christian University that was studying geology to be a scientist or teacher. Occidental Petroleum recruited her at graduation with $ salary and she's been there for 30 years now.

Here's my take (at 55) as I am watching my 18 year old nieces and nephews picking their careers. I had friends that picked airline pilot and wall street tycoon at age 18 and they got there and stayed there. Many of my friends changed direction multiple times in their 20s and it worked out fine once they figured out what they were suited to. I was a history major, but learned business on the job. I am mainly happy to see a kid pick a direction and go for it. Often times they make turns but it still works out.

In my 30 years post college, In the business world I have seen interest, passion and hard work trump "the right school" over and over again, academia might be another story.

First two years of undergrad typically has the base or core requirement classes, history, math, English, with some base classes for the course of study.

Getting them out of the way while he's in FL would be a good option to use the FL Prepaid an cover costs at either UF or FSU.

There are a lot of smaller colleges in FL, if you can use the prepaid there it might be better for him to adjust to college life going to Stetson, USF, FIU, FGC, etc....

Top Geology Schools Fl Link

He's aiming at an advanced degree. The question is where to go for undergrad that puts him in the best position when applying to grad school. Grades are important. Letters of rec carry weight. Research, research, research, and research is the name of the game. I mean research done in labs. Research where he can show his chops. Research he can get published. Research in the best facilities. Research under big names. Research that lands him grant money he can take to grad school making the funding game less of a hassle.

How big are the geology programs in state? How many majors? How many professors? How many courses and how often are they taught? Are the programs and staffing levels stable? How are the research facilities? Where do the professors do field work and what kind? Do they take undergrads along for the ride during summer? What do the professors publish? How is it received? Are there opportunities for undergrads to do supervised research of their own? Look at the grad students and see what they're doing and where they came from. Reach out to professors and even grad students with questions. Grad students may be more likely to respond and are much more likely to speak the truth.

Based on my experience with graduate programs{not Geology} find the graduate program you like best. Certain undergraduate schools act as feeder programs. That is where you should consider attending. For many graduate programs it is much more diffcult to be admitted than medical school. There is no substiute for visiting.

I employ quite a few geologists of all levels. As an employer/interviewer, I say the undergrad component doesn’t matter. I also asked a few of the people that work for me today, they all agree get the degree where you have the scholarship, do well, and go to a higher tier grad school. A couple of my guys have Ivy League undergrad degrees and they said it makes no difference, because they learned most of the important stuff getting their PhD’s anyways. Not worth building debt from your undergrad.

trapper189,

Here is some advice from an engineer, don't sweat the undergraduate degree. Nealry 2/3 to 3/4 of what your son will be taking are general eds and only a few classes to do specifically with his degree. I started with my A.S. from a local community college, then transferred to a university that took all of my classes and got my B.S. 18 months later, then went to graduate school and got my M.S. all in Civil Engineering (hint...mistake).

I've been in my career field for pushing 25 years now, have worked private sector, public sector...local, state and federal. What matters most is EXPERIENCE and WHO he knows, the CONTACTS he will make, RELATIONSHIPS he will develop, MENTORS that can guide him. He will work with assholes, morons, interoffice politics and MUST learn to deal with it all without burning bridges.

At some point in his career, he will become a manager or want to be. He will need a good foundation of BUSINESS courses that will benefit him in his career field along with his personal life such as investing, his retirement plans, etc. This is all stuff everyone his age blows-off and it is a HUGE mistake. Technical degrees will take you so far, at some point you need to be able to convince people and "sell" your ideas to the powers that be to fund your work/projects/research, etc.

A few other pieces of Dad advice: have fun doing whatever he does, learn to forgive, and don't be stupid.

Lastly, have him read Robert Kiyosaki's book "Rich Dad Poor Dad" it will open his eyes to the world of investing, finance, and life in general. A lot of good lessons in there.

quote:

Originally posted by MelissaDallas:
Rice University in Texas (private) has a well regarded geology program, including volcanology. My uncle’s PhD was in geology was from there and he worked for big oil until he decided to go back for medical school to go into practice with my granddad. Don’t rule out private-often they have very good scholarship and research programs.

Rice is a good school. Very good. But that means it is selective, so he will need excellent grades and test scores.

Thanks folks for all of the thoughtful and insightful advice. It’s really helping me solidify the plan and how we approach picking schools. My dad always says “plan the work and work the plan”.

The plan started when the kids were born and we set up 529 investment plans for each of them. The market has done well and so have their 529s. When we learned about the Bright Futures Scholarship, that was added to the plan, same as the collegiate high school. Qualify for the scholarship, earn an Associates of Arts degree at 17, and go to another college. Geology was added in the 8th grade when he decided he wanted to be a volcanologist. That’s how we got to this point.

When I was 16, I really believed I was going to leave the Midwest, move to California, and start a company manufacturing surfboards. That’s about as goofy as a kid born and raised in Florida deciding he wants to study volcanoes. I wound up becoming a CPA and not counting the Minnesota portion, I’ve been west of the Mississippi 3 times. I don’t know what he’ll wind up doing and that’s fine. From what I can tell, it’s a good path to start out on.

Based on the advice here, and I can’t thank folks enough because I was panicking a little, the plan going forward is this:

1. Pick some schools to apply to.

2. Wait and see who accepts his application.

3. Evaluate the aid packages if any.

4. Pick a school.

5. Get a minor in Business Management or some such.

Expanding on #5: being 17 when he starts at the next school and having four years of free tuition at a Florida school, there’s no rush for him to finish his Bachelor’s degree in two years at the age of 19. He could double major, get a couple minors, take some classes for fun, etc. Maybe Speech/Communications, an acting class, accounting and budgeting, lots of options.

He needs to build his interpersonal skills. He had a 3 hour driver’s ed class at the high school he swims for yesterday. I recognized one of the other parents when I picked him up and asked him if he knew anyone else in the class. He says yes, so and so was there. I asked if he said hello to her and he said no. I’m thinking maybe there’s 30 kids in the class and the opportunity didn’t come up. So I asked and he tells me there’s only 8 kids in the class. I’m like dang son, you went to school with this cute girl for 4 years in elementary and middle school and you couldn’t even say hello?

6. Panic about grad school at some point in the future.

7. Do it all over with my daughter and youngest son.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Background (questions at the bottom):
My oldest is at the stage of picking colleges to apply to. He wants to be a Volcanologist .

I don’t have a clue about this whole Geology thing, though.


I think I got my money’s worth from my college education, but I’m looking at the numbers for my kids and asking does that really make fiscal sense?

Nope, but he should do what makes him happy.
Could be a long road to financial success if any but we should not thwart dreams.

On the other hand if he has a particular job and employer in mind - why not call their HR for advice on what they look for?

PS my dad had a Geology degree from Iowa State and went to work for an Engineering firm in Iowa (Stanley Consultants), it was a good background to get him started.

Good luck.

maladat is spot on with his information about PHD's, at least in the sciences.

My oldest had a full fellowship for her PHD.

As far as doing what makes you happy, we have family friends with a son that obtained his PHD in medieval history because that is what he loves...

Absolutely excellent idea to ask someone in the profession where to go.

Some schools may have "real" programs, others may not - undergrad schools can vary, widely, in how well the student is prepared for grad school, which controls how difficult it is to get into a grad school from that undergrad.

Knocking out his first degree, quickly, can take a lot of pressure off.

Some grad programs prepare you to teach and do research. Others are more out in the field and practical. The only way to find out is to see where their graduates are employed.

From a financial standpoint, stay in-state for BS and use 529 for MS. Kind of like going to a community college for 2 years and then finishing at a 4-year university.

The applications are in. In no particular order: University of Florida, Florida State, University of South Florida, University of Michigan - Ann Arbor, University of Wisconsin - Madison, Texas A&M, and Colorado School of Mines.

We ignored each school’s swimming because he’s not going to be a D1 swimmer when he finishes high school. That may have been a mistake because I found out last night Colorado School of Mines has a D2 men’s swim team. My son’a current times would make him a contributing member of the team and he’s only 17. With another year and some good coaching, he could be a valuable member of the team. In a couple years, he could be a rockstar for the Orediggers.

With what they say about themselves, “And yes, we embrace our inner nerd.“, I didn’t look at their athletics program at all.

Here’s the current plan:

Florida State and University of Florida are the backup schools. He’ll have his AA degree, but his current school doesn’t offer all the prereq’s for Geology. He’ll go to one of these two schools, get those prereq’s, and then be able to transfer as a Junior to a better school and start his Geology degree at that school. This would also give him an opportunity to explore some other majors that wouldn’t be possible at Colorado School of Mines.

University of Florida would be the best in state option. With him qualifying for the Florida Bright Futures Scholarship at the 100% level and getting accepted to UF, he’d have some bargaining power with the other schools.

The out of state schools are really going to depend on how much money it’s going to cost overall including a masters degree.

Similar field…My nephew just started at UT Austin in geology. Wants to be in the oil industry after spending an internship in high school at an oil engineering field. they live in TX and he applied to Tx A&M and Colorado school of mines. But at last minute UT accepted him and per my brother they are just as highly rated for geological sciences and mining etc. Kid is a freshman and taking math and science classes that make my head hurt.