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Member |
Arghhhhhh! Had to fire a team leader today. It really sucks to fire someone during the holidays. The man has 2 small autistic kids and a homemaker wife. I feel for the guy. This guy was a menace to our place, just couldn't take direction, couldn't give clear direction, knew everything and was just an overall asshat to be blunt about it. He had the resume and background to be good but simply couldn't do it. Sometimes experience means nothing! Why does it still bother me? It mostly bothers me because I invested my time in him. He was just immune to growth and improvement. 4 months of action plans and coaching and he accomplished none of it. Craziest thing to me was his last statement was why didn't you tell me what I could do to change? I would have fixed it. WHAAAAT??? Dude, what do you think those PIP's I created and we discussed the last 4 months were? What do you think the warning write-ups were after each checkpoint regarding the PIP's? When the other staff saw me walk him out not one said goodbye to him. Not one shook his hand. Not one helped him carry his box. They even said it's about time and thank you when I came back in. I know for fact it was the right thing to do for our culture and the business, but it still sucks. "It's gon' be some slow singing -n- flower bringing............ if my burglar alarm starts ringing" | ||
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Fighting the good fight |
Don't beat yourself up. Sounds like he only has himself to blame for the resulting hardship on his family. That's not on you. It's business, not charity. | |||
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| Member |
Be glad you could get rid of him. During my career in the prison system, I had several incompetent/borderline corrupt probationers that could not be fired because losing them would impact the demographics. In four different cases, they were later terminated after indictment for crimes. You did you best, it didn't work out. Move on. | |||
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Frangas non Flectes |
I'm sorry you had to do that. Right at seven years ago, nearly to the day, I was that guy. I needed it, badly. It took me several years to get over it, but the personal growth it helped start for me was not only a good thing, it was entirely a necessary thing. The only difference between your story and mine was I shook my supervisor's hand and said "I get it. I can be a grown man about this, there's no hard feelings." I'm hopeful that this was the wake up call your guy needed. Nothing should kick a man in the butt harder than failing his family when they need him most. ______________________________________________ “There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God Almighty Himself hates with you, too.” | |||
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| Member |
It hurts. But, You definitely did the right thing! It sounds like he fired himself, you where the one stuck telling him. | |||
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| Sigs are my Panacea...  |
It is refreshing to see this discussion. The bottom line is that: YOU GIVE A CRAP! Most in your position do tasks like this without a thought or emotion. As uncomfortable as you seem from your post, please do not lose this! You are unique! * --- Sig 365, 365XL, 245, P6 * | |||
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| Member |
Thanks Guys. I appreciate the support. I tried to find something to grab on to and give the guy another chance. I had to stop myself and remember that he already had 4-5 another chances. I remember asking him once what do you think you were hired for talent or hard work? He said hard work. I still can't believe it. NO! You're a team leader. Use your talent and experience and make others better. You are here to lead and your style should be contagious. We already have people doing the job. No one needs you to do it, we need you to show them how to do it better. Last advice I gave this guy was...if you are the leader, look behind yourself as you're leading. If no one is following you, you are just a guy taking a walk. Sadly, I don't think he got that lesson either. "It's gon' be some slow singing -n- flower bringing............ if my burglar alarm starts ringing" | |||
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| Get my pies outta the oven!  |
That old saying “you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink” comes to mind here. | |||
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| Member |
Thank You. I'm a culture person more than anything. I really believe the focus should be on HOW we do things. Most folks can be taught to complete tasks, but the key is how are you doing it. Are you doing it as a team, with integrity, with pride? Are you doing it with transparency, are you approachable, flexible, energetic, supportive or are you just completing tasks and saying I'm done? A good leader will welcome people questioning his/her decisions and processes and will give the WHY without being asked and definitely will give the why when directly asked without being offended. When someone questions me I take it as they are interested and want to know more and be more, NOT that they are not in lock step with me and need to watched or scolded. "It's gon' be some slow singing -n- flower bringing............ if my burglar alarm starts ringing" | |||
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| Member |
I'll also applaud you for doing the documentation, to include the PIPs and counselings. I often fail at that. it also sounds like he never made the transition from laborer to leader. | |||
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| Member |
That's the hard part. It's creating more work for yourself, but it has to be done. I want to make sure I can truly say to myself that I tried to help the person. Unfortunately, this guy was a "highly recommended" hire by our President. He came in as a leader and you're right he didn't have the skills needed. "It's gon' be some slow singing -n- flower bringing............ if my burglar alarm starts ringing" | |||
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Drill Here, Drill Now |
I've had to fire people and it sucks. Some people are gypsies for a reason and just bounce job to job to job because they just can't get out of their own way. Then, he should've acted like his family's livelihood depended on it and responded to the coaching, the PIPs, etc. Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer. | |||
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| Green grass and high tides  |
Yep, move on. It is on him, not you. I supervised a clown, guy went out of his way to be an ass. Tried to undermine my authority with others. Would not be part of a team. Kept him too long. Was a great day to seem him walk out the door. You did the best thing. Some folks just don't want ot succeed. "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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Oriental Redneck |
Incompetent, unimprovable and a danger to the business? Holidays and autistic kids are irrelevant. Q | |||
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Member |
In the corporate world, a PIP should be your wake up call. That’s what it is. Change, do what we say, or your ass is gone. He didn’t listen so feel zero remorse. Don’t let the got damn door hit you in the ass on the way buddy. I have a guy on my team like this and management has put up with the shit for a decade. I recently found out he fucked me at one of my sites that I engineered a year ago and implemented earlier this year. He didn’t turn up a key piece of bandwidth for our customers to use and my facilities guys had to do it for him. He’s just a complete fuck up and all the warnings, etc, by management has little to no effect. He should have been fired at least 5 years go. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Tenacious Tempestuous with Integrity |
Okay. I will be the dumb ass old curmudgeon and ask what a PIP is? | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
The staff always knows who the F-up is, and they watch management to see how its handled, for a bit everyone looks for the turnaround, but once it's settled that person is a problem, your team starts looking at you (management) wondering why you don't do something, as they have to make up for this persons mistakes and work... They always know.... See Below
and if you don't fix it, they start to question you (management) | |||
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| Fighting the good fight |
Performance Improvement Plan. Effectively a fancy version of a "write up". Basically a document from your boss formally notifying you of specific shortcomings in your job performance, the expected corrections, and often a timeline in which to achieve compliance, or else face further consequences up to being fired. Typically used as an interim step between an informal talking-to from the boss (first steps) and being demoted/reassigned/fired (last step). It gives the employee irrefutable notice that they're on the path to being fired unless they fix it quickly, and if it progresses to being fired, it provides a paper trail to help cover the employer against claims of wrongful termination/discrimination, unemployment benefit claims after firing, etc. | |||
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| Member |
It's just Business, Its good you have a heart, but ultimatly it's his duty to take care of the family, and wasnt capable of taking care of your "family" either. “Let us dare to read, think, speak and write.” John Adams | |||
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| It's all part of the adventure... |
Sounds like you went above-and-beyond trying to help him correct his course. Actions — and inactions — have consequences. Not everyone can fit in everywhere. Maybe this will motivate him to pull his head out of his ass and improve. You made Christmas merrier for the rest of your employees anyway by cutting him loose. Their reaction to his departure tells me he was toxic. Sounds to me like you’re a good leader who cares about ALL his employees. Regards From Sunny Tucson, SigFan NRA Life - IDPA - USCCA - GOA - JPFO - ACLDN - SAF - AZCDL - ASA "Faith isn't believing that God can; it's knowing that He will." (From a sign on a church in Nicholasville, Kentucky) | |||
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