I had a boss in my very early 20's that used to say "if blunt force doesn't fix the problem, you aren't using enough of it" He was wrong! Even young talent wins vs just laboring in my opinion. BUT seasoned talent certainly should rise to the task.

After obtaining 30-35 yrs of work experience a man should be able to navigate the path with the skill, talent and experience he has gathered over all of those years AND he should be able to make others better too.

I'm not a wise man, but hope to be. I'm just getting old and learning to have deeper thoughts before responding to an issue. Have a plan to remedy situations in a way that helps us be better the next time and that's all I asked of him.

There are only 3 things in any business...the people, the place and the process. The place is handled by our owner, I handle the process all this guy had to do was take care of the people and help them rise. He was being paid $90,000 for a cushy 8-430 no nights, weekends or holidays job with a huge office overlooking the skyline. Dress however you want, come a lil late no problem, leave a lil early no problem just pour into the staff, make small improvements in every area you can and keep the guys happy...THAT'S IT! We can replace him very very easily. Who doesn't want that job???

When I worked in management I told people I don't fire anyone, you fire yourself so if you got fired only you were to blame. Sounds like you did everything you could to make the guy successful but he was unwilling to conform and meet standards. It is tough to fire someone even when they deserve it but better them than you.

quote:

Originally posted by FLKev:
Arghhhhhh! Had to fire a team leader today. It really sucks to fire someone during the holidays. The man has 2 small autistic kids and a homemaker wife. I feel for the guy.

I wonder with you saying he has two autistic kids, if he wasn't somewhere on the spectrum also and just couldn't grasp and absorb the information in the PIP or what desired outcomes you were looking for? That's a tough one.

I was in a regional manager position and had to let a dude go. He told me "you seem threatened by me" I told him no, I don't feel threatened it's just that I can't comprehend your interactions. I can understand when "A" happens someone jumps to "B,C,D or even E" but when you go from "A" to "Q" it makes me uneasy and more importantly, it makes the client and your colleagues uneasy.

He was just not able to grasp what a common social interaction of stimulus and response should look like.

he had every chance to step up to the plate, you gave him all the opportunities you could

but, while firing someone isn't easy, its usually the right thing to do if its for the right reasons

holidays, day of week, seasonal changes and barometric pressure are all irrelevant

These were always the easy ones for me. The tough ones are people that do a good job and don’t cause any issues but you have to thin the heard for cost cutting.

Man, I feel you—it’s never easy, especially when someone has a family depending on them, but it sounds like you did everything you could to help him improve. I’ve been there before, putting so much time into coaching someone only for them to completely miss the point, and it’s frustrating as hell. If the team was that relieved to see him go, though, it says a lot. Sometimes, no matter how much potential someone has on paper, they’re just not a fit, and keeping them around hurts everyone else. You made the call that was best for the business and the culture, and that’s what matters, even if it feels crappy in the moment.

quote:

When the other staff saw me walk him out not one said goodbye to him. Not one shook his hand. Not one helped him carry his box. They even said it's about time and thank you when I came back in.

This right here is why you had to do it. Your other employees don't deserve to have to put up with some toxic dude who can't get it together. It makes their lives miserable, and nobody should dread having to go to work. It sounds like you did the right thing by them, and also went about it in the right way with him. He can choose to learn from it and better himself, or continue down the same path and go through the same thing again. It's his problem now, not yours.

You afforded him many opportunities to develop into a better employee by identifying his work-performance deficits and offering corrective-action plans to get him on-track / aligned with corporate goals and expectations.

This is what a good and conscientious manager / supervisor does.

He has only himself to blame.

“What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men, you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week -- which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it anymore than you men.”

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Yep, move on. It is on him, not you.

I agree. It's not like the company was cost cutting. It was cutting off someone who didn't care about himself or his family enough to perform the work for the money you were paying him.

I worked under a person like that. She was supposedly some kind of amazing project manager that saves businesses but it turned out she knew nothing about working for our industry or the technological side of anything. She got fired the week before xmas and while some may feel bad about that, it sure was a relief. I just say thanks for caring but extra thanks for doing the right thing.

I had to fire my brother once. That sucked, but like has been said above, he fired himself.

I fired a guy last week for attendance. Got another on the edge for the same reason.

quote:

Originally posted by jgerge222:
Okay. I will be the dumb ass old curmudgeon and ask what a PIP is?

thank you!

i have been using the term write ups forever.

Last night I just delivered a year's worth of write ups to an employee.
She was given a resign or be terminated letter the other day and I get back to work after a week and was told to make copies of all her write ups and hand deliver it.

I had no clue any of this was happening. I'm the night shift supervisor and she just happened to rotate to night shift on my return.



Let's keep everyone in the loop next time is all I asked and why let someone keep working if you're just going to terminate them? That should've happened the other day.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

Performance Improvement Plan. Effectively a fancy version of a "write up".

Basically a document from your boss formally notifying you of specific shortcomings in your job performance, the expected corrections, and often a timeline in which to achieve compliance, or else face further consequences up to being fired.

We called it being "pimped". That was because in my office, they only wrote up a PIP when all efforts at informal correction had failed and they had decided to fire the employee. They needed the PIP so they could have a paper trail.

In my experience a PIP means you will be fired, it's all over but the shouting, employer is covering their ass and you need to find a new job asap. When i got a PIP and was coming close to meeting it, my boss's boss doubled everything in the PIP to ensure I wouldn't make it. I knew it and it was no surprise when the hammer dropped, had a better job in 30 days.

The second time it happened, my boss wanted rid of me, refused the work I turned in for the PIP. His boss then fired him and gave me his job. But I was really sweating that one for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:

quote:

Originally posted by jgerge222:
Okay. I will be the dumb ass old curmudgeon and ask what a PIP is?

thank you!

i have been using the term write ups forever.

Last night I just delivered a year's worth of write ups to an employee.
She was given a resign or be terminated letter the other day and I get back to work after a week and was told to make copies of all her write ups and hand deliver it.

I had no clue any of this was happening. I'm the night shift supervisor and she just happened to rotate to night shift on my return.



Let's keep everyone in the loop next time is all I asked and why let someone keep working if you're just going to terminate them? That should've happened the other day.

PIP stands for Performance Improvement Plan. When you're on one, it means you're on the clock and you better make the required progress according to schedule.

I was a Foreman so I didn't have the authority to fire anyone , but I could make recommendations to our Supervisor . I did help SAVE a guys job once though . We had a new hire on probation . He was coming in late and missing days . Not a bad guy , just immature and didn't take it serious . Supv. and the other two Foremen were ready to cut him loose . I told them we should bring him in and scare the hell out of him . Give him one more chance . We did . We told him that there was only one person in the room that wanted to give him a shot at keeping his job and he had one week to turn it around and impress the other three . Supv held up a stack of resumes and said " These people right here would kill to have your job . Don't fuck it up . " It worked . He got his mind right and made a decent employee . Some people get it . Some don't .

I worked for an ass hat like that. I know this is different but,good riddance to rubbish.

I managed a dealership parts department a long time ago. As a favor to one of the techs I hired his cousin. Spotty work history, married, three kids. Wife gave him ultimatum to find a job.

Once his ninety days were up it became a constant stream of “emergencies”, child care, kid sick, wife sick, he was sick. Come in late, need to leave early. I was pretty flexible but this was getting out of hand so I started documenting each incident. We had a sit down, showed him what was happening and gave him thirty days to clean up his act.

He ultimately fired himself. As he was sharing rides with his cousin there was a tech meeting after work. He took it upon himself to go to the meeting and start on the time clock. The next day it was brought to my attention. Called him in the office to tell him that he was not getting paid for the two hour service meeting, neither myself or my assistant manager authorized it and that this was not to happen again.

Well things got a little heated as I brought up the absences, tardiness and emergencies that were still an issue. He said “If I don’t get paid for that meeting I quit!” So I picked up his time card, wrote on it “Minus two hours pay, unauthorized attendance at service meeting”, initialed it and handed it back to him saying “Your move.”

He grabbed the card out of my hand, got up and went to the time clock and punched out. I said to him in front of my assistant and one of the techs “Where are you going? You just came back from lunch.” In response he told me to do something anatomically impossible. I looked at my assistant and said “This would appear to be a voluntary termination of his employment, would you agree?”

Sometimes being a boss sucks.
“Heavy is the head…”

But at the end of the day, I’ve found that people get what they ask for.

If I ask you to punch me in the face, then I beg you to punch me in the face, after a while, I just flat out demand you to punch me in the face…
Why are you feeling guilty for punching me in the face?

It may seem unpleasant to punch me in the face, but that’s what I asked for.