So! What's California willing to trade for the assistance? Think quick, the clock's tickin'.

Send the Army Corps of Engineers to make the fix, funding them directly for materials and support, without California or Gov. Brown getting their hands on any of it. (Do not even purchase materials or food in California.)

Tell Gov. Brown this is the last such emergency that will receive this attention and that he should make provisions in his state budget to handle them.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
This isn't a budget issue.

If someone is asking for money because they don't have the money, it's a budget issue.

You're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

By your logic whenever a state asks for federal funds for any sort of disaster, we ought to decline and blame the lack of money on planning? Gotcha.

Just remember, this part of the state is rather red and while CA is fucked up in Sacramento and other areas, these little cities, towns and communities that will be flooded are the same ones that voted for conservative members of the House to give the Republicans a majority.

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
Send the Army Corps of Engineers to make the fix, funding them directly for materials and support, without California or Gov. Brown getting their hands on any of it. (Do not even purchase materials or food in California.)


flashguy

Beat me to it. THIS is the answer, and it avoids putting money in the hands of somebody who will take it and try to damage Trump personally.

My sister just called from a traffic jam in Yuba City. They are evacuating also.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:
If you have a family member that cannot spend their money wisely, do you give them money when they "need" it because their home needs repairs?

In my case, it was my sister, and I said "Yes". Family comes first, and because I could, I did. She always said my money was a loan and that she'd pay it back--and I think she actually thought she would. I was quite certain, however, that it would never happen. She died of cancer at age 45, so I'll never know for sure. All I do know is that I sent her money when she needed it, and didn't expect to ever get it back. She was my baby sister, and I miss her!

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
You're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

By your logic whenever a state asks for federal funds for any sort of disaster, we ought to decline and blame the lack of money on planning? Gotcha.

Just remember, this part of the state is rather red and while CA is fucked up in Sacramento and other areas, these little cities, towns and communities that will be flooded are the same ones that voted for conservative members of the House to give the Republicans a majority.

But if you leave it up to Gov Brown, how much of the fed disaster relief money will be spent directly to solve the disaster problem at hand; vs how much will be spent on bureaucracy and crony capitalism with only the leftovers to help those in need?

I like flashguy's solution, have the Corps of Engineers fix the problem directly. Much better chance of getting done right, and the money being used effectively. Not that I have full confidence in the Corps of Engineers, but I have total lack of confidence in anything done by CA gov't.

quote:

Originally posted by snoris:

quote:

Originally posted by flashguy:
Send the Army Corps of Engineers to make the fix, funding them directly for materials and support, without California or Gov. Brown getting their hands on any of it. (Do not even purchase materials or food in California.)


flashguy

Beat me to it. THIS is the answer, and it avoids putting money in the hands of somebody who will take it and try to damage Trump personally.

Hope you don't mind my emphasis.

Money will not fix the Dam..... Its too late. We will be mine laying the Colorado River & blowing up the bridges soon to keep the Kommies out.

quote:

Originally posted by AzMikeCFD102:
#Calexit: Californians campaign to leave the United States after Trump victory



According to 2015 figures from the IMF, if California were to become independent it would be the world’s sixth-largest economy, ahead of France and India, and one place behind the United Kingdom.


"Nuts"

Right up until the military pulls out. If that happens they drop like a stone.

quote:

Originally posted by AzMikeCFD102:
#Calexit: Californians campaign to leave the United States after Trump victory



According to 2015 figures from the IMF, if California were to become independent it would be the world’s sixth-largest economy, ahead of France and India, and one place behind the United Kingdom.


"Nuts"

Sixth-largest FAILED economy....

flashguy

Jerry Brown is a plunderer. Give him millions, he will automatically insert it into the public pension funds, which are desperately underfunded.

The feds should not give him a single penny.

My heart tells me to tell the whole damn state to take a hike but my head is telling me to give them the aid. I see no upside for Trump to withhold the money.

Soon Arizona will have the beachfront property that it needs. Government Moonbeam has the workers to fix his problems but he doesn't want to burden them while they are sucklung on Californias teat. Don't let him have a dime. Get it from everyone who supported Hilary and Hussien.
California should be 2 states anyhow.

Oroville Dam: Feds and state officials ignored warnings 12 years ago


More than a decade ago, federal and state officials and some of California’s largest water agencies rejected concerns that the massive earthen spillway at Oroville Dam — at risk of collapse Sunday night and prompting the evacuation of 185,000 people — could erode during heavy winter rains and cause a catastrophe.


Three environmental groups — the Friends of the River, the Sierra Club and the South Yuba Citizens League — filed a motion with the federal government on Oct. 17, 2005, as part of Oroville Dam’s relicensing process, urging federal officials to require that the dam’s emergency spillway be armored with concrete, rather than remain as an earthen hillside.

The groups filed the motion with FERC, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. They said that the dam, built and owned by the state of California, and finished in 1968, did not meet modern safety standards because in the event of extreme rain and flooding, fast-rising water would overwhelm the main concrete spillway, then flow down the emergency spillway, and that could cause heavy erosion that would create flooding for communities downstream, but also could cause a failure, known as “loss of crest control.”

“A loss of crest control could not only cause additional damage to project lands and facilities but also cause damages and threaten lives in the protected floodplain downstream,” the groups wrote.

FERC rejected that request, however, after the state Department of Water Resources, [b}and the water agencies that would likely have had to pay the bill for the upgrades, said they were unnecessary.[/b] Those agencies included the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, which provides water to 19 million people in Los Angeles, San Diego and other areas, along with the State Water Contractors, an association of 27 agencies that buy water from the state of California through the State Water Project. The association includes the Metropolitan Water District, Kern County Water Agency, the Santa Clara Valley Water District and the Alameda County Water District.

Federal officials at the time said that the emergency spillway was designed to handle 350,000 cubic feet per second and the concerns were overblown.

“It is important to recognize that during a rare event with the emergency spillway flowing at its design capacity, spillway operations would not affect reservoir control or endanger the dam,” wrote John Onderdonk, a senior civil engineer with FERC, in the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s San Francisco Office, in a July 27, 2006, memo to his managers.

“The emergency spillway meets FERC’s engineering guidelines for an emergency spillway,” he added. “The guidelines specify that during a rare flood event, it is acceptable for the emergency spillway to sustain significant damage.”


This weekend, as Lake Oroville’s level rose to the top and water couldn’t be drained fast enough down the main concrete spillway because it had partially collapsed on Tuesday, millions of gallons of water began flowing over the dam’s emergency spillway for the first time in its 50-year history.

On Sunday, with flows of only 6,000 to 12,000 cubic feet per second — water only a foot or two deep and less than 5 percent of the rate that FERC said was safe — erosion at the emergency spillway became so severe that officials from the State Department of Water Resources ordered the evacuation of more than 185,000 people. The fear was that the erosion could undercut the 1,730-foot-long concrete lip along the top of the emergency spillway, allowing billions of gallons of water to pour down the hillside toward Oroville and other towns downstream.

Such an uncontrolled release from California’s second-largest reservoir while it was completely full could become one of the worst dam disasters in U.S. history.

“We said ‘are you really sure that running all this water over the emergency spillway won’t cause the spillway to fail?'” said Ron Stork, policy director with Friends of the River, a Sacramento environmental group that filed the motions in 2005. “They tried to be as evasive as possible. It would have cost money to build a proper concrete spillway.”

Stork watched with horror Sunday night as the emergency spillway was at risk of collapse.

“I’m feeling bad that we were unable to persuade DWR and FERC and the Army Corps to have a safer dam,” he said Sunday.

Stork said that officials from the Department of Water Resources told him informally at the time that the Metropolitan Water District and the water contractors who buy water from Oroville did not want to incur the extra costs.

“I’m sad and hoping, crossing my fingers, that they can prevent the reservoir from failing,” he said. “I don’t think anybody at DWR has ever been this close in their careers to such a catastrophic failure.”

Lester Snow, who was the state Department of Water Resources director from 2004 to 2010, said Sunday night that he does not recall the specifics of the debate during the relicensing process 11 years ago.

“The dam and the outlet structures have always done well in tests and inspections,” Snow said. “I don’t recall the FERC process.”

Stork said at the time he talked to Snow about the environmental group’s concerns, and he recalls that Snow said the issue was being handled mostly by one of his lieutenants.

A filing on May 26, 2006, by Thomas Berliner, an attorney for the State Water Contractors, and Douglas Adamson, an attorney for the Metropolitan Water District of Southern California, discounted the risk. It urged FERC to reject the request to require that the emergency spillway be armored, a job that would have cost tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars.

“The emergency spillway was designed to safely convey the Probable Maximum Flood, and DWR has reviewed and confirmed the efficacy of the PMF hydrologic analysis for Oroville Reservoir,” the attorneys noted.

Ultimately, they were successful. FERC did not require the state to upgrade the emergency spillway.

http://www.mercurynews.com/201...rnings-12-years-ago/


I like flashguys solition, give the money to the Corp of Engineers and let them control the repairs. Do not give the money to California as they will put it in their pockets. Make sure the people know it came from Trump!

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
You're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

By your logic whenever a state asks for federal funds for any sort of disaster, we ought to decline and blame the lack of money on planning? Gotcha.

Just remember, this part of the state is rather red and while CA is fucked up in Sacramento and other areas, these little cities, towns and communities that will be flooded are the same ones that voted for conservative members of the House to give the Republicans a majority.

I understand what you are saying about these folks being OUR folks. I get it, but there have been numerous posts in this thread that show actions have consequences. The elected officials within the state of California have deemed it more necessary to cover abortions for all, welfare for illegals, and every other humanitarian mission they can find, rather than set some money aside to fix crumbling bridges, roads, and dams (~1400 of them).

By your logic, nobody should have an emergency fund! Think about that for a minute...
Should we all just chip in when your hot water heater takes a shit on you? How about if you lost your job, should we just cover your bills like your mortgage, car payments, cable/internet/cell phone bills? That is what I am getting out of your statement at least.

Emergency funds are for emergencies. Occasional but predictable expenses aren't emergencies. Annual expenses are not emergencies. California knows that there are things that happen with regularity: Earthquakes, floods, landslides/mudslides, wildfires, tsunamis, power outages, and extreme heat. Failing to plan accordingly with their money is a slap in the face for those who do.

quote:

Originally posted by ArLEOret:
I like flashguys solition, give the money to the Corp of Engineers and let them control the repairs. Do not give the money to California as they will put it in their pockets. Make sure the people know it came from Trump!

My sense of the situation now is that no amount of money can fix the dam while this flooding event is occurring. I think the governor needs $ to cover the costs associated with evac, housing, downstream impact etc. Any federal dollars sent WOULD go into general fund because the run-off related expenses could potentially occur in many arenas.

quote:

Gov. Jerry Brown Asks Trump For Fed Funds

CA asks the feds for more funds when it doesn't rain (drought) and then again when it does rain (flood).

This 'climate change' of drought and flood has been the weather pattern in the California area for thousands of years.... but under Democrats everything is ALWAYS a disaster.

That dam was a State of Cali project, right?
It's not a federal dam. So... if there is a repair to be made... the State of Cali should pay for it.

However, if the Federal government does honor the request, the money should NOT be handed over to Jerry Brown.
I also like flashguys solution, give the money to the Corp of Engineers and let them control the repairs.