quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
At some point there will be a global "reset". All of the worlds major currencies are linked through central banks. None of them are backed by anything but rapidly mounting debt. They will all crash and become worthless at once. It will be epic. It's a matter of when, not if.

Damn, aren’t you a cheery soul? You’re right of course, but that doesn’t make it any cheerier.

Interestingly, when discussing this a few years ago with a friend, she pointed out, “Yeah, sure, we’re totally bankrupt, but we’re less bankrupt than any other economy that is even on the same planet in therms of size. There is no way that any of the (much smaller) currencies that are significantly less bankrupt currencies could absorb the flow of assets and the renminbi and euro are more scrod than the dollar, so folks will keep sending their money here. We’re okay until that changes or the whole world falls apart.” Hmmm, I guess being “less worser” is better than being worst.

Be interesting to see whether the wheels come off in our lifetimes or we get to leave the problem to our descendants. Either way, cleaning rifles and stocking precious metals (lead & brass) is prolly a good idea...

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
At some point there will be a global "reset". All of the worlds major currencies are linked through central banks. None of them are backed by anything but rapidly mounting debt. They will all crash and become worthless at once. It will be epic. It's a matter of when, not if.

It’s hard to see how your gloom is not regressive economic philosophy.

Your idea seems to share the features of historical arguments about “specie circular,” “Bryan’s cross of gold,” or doing away with “full faith and credit “ for backing currency.

The world economy is stabilized by these United States on our promise to back up our promise to make good.

Banks are not backed by nothing. They are backed in assets and a promise to make good.

True, there is not enough gold on deposit to make all promissory bank notes or electronic transfers good, but the promises extend beyond that.

The argument about a coming collapse has been around a long time. The “Audit the Fed” movement has been trying to dig at the underlying value of United States’ promises for a while.

I think it’s true that international markets rely on the strength of promises to make promises good but that is not to say such reality unavoidably leads to financial collapse.

My big concern is that world markets are so reliant on the United States that countries like China, Russia, and places like Iran will conceive a way to trade while making a new financial order.

President Trump is showing just how strong we are in the current status quo by using sanctions and tariffs as a principal instrument of foreign policy.

Other countries will respond by seeking to avoid the pressure. I suppose that could lead to a collapse but the international players have an interest in seeking stable international markets regardless.

It seems to me that international markets will not unavoidably collapse. Instead, they will unavoidably change.

. . . or so it seems from these cheap seats.

quote:

It’s hard to see how your gloom is not regressive economic philosophy.

'Fiat currency always eventually returns to its intrinsic value--> zero.'
-- Voltaire

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
They would happily bankrupt this country

We're probably already there with $22,000,000,000,000 of debt. Who thinks we can or will even try to repay that?

The promise of the current economic approach is that we will grow our way out of the debt with concurrent fiscal restraint.

We have said "the debt is too big" before but we made progress through growth any way.

It seems more true that Democrats have NO plan and NO philosophy to curb the debt.

President Trump says he wants to curb spending but he doesn't have the numbers in the House right now.

Hopefully, that will change.

By percentage in real dollars, Obama expanded our national debt almost three times as much as President Trump and the belt tightening is yet to arrive.

So, it's not a foregone conclusion that the debt will never be eliminated. President Trump and his advisors have had their hands tied and there's likely to be movement on that front coming.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

It’s hard to see how your gloom is not regressive economic philosophy.

'Fiat currency always eventually returns to its intrinsic value--> zero.'
-- Voltaire

Well, that's what I meant by regressive philosophy.

By the way, I don't think Voltaire was right.

It wasn't meant as an insult, by the way, just an observation.

- like Marxist said that capitalism must collapse under its own weight.

The philosophy has been around awhile.

quote:

By the way, I don't think Voltaire was right.

How long has this planet been spinning around the sun?
Can you think of a single currency that has held its value for even 1000 years?
What you are saying is pretty much what was said of the Roman coin, with Caesars image. It was the coin of the realm, the world currency, until suddenly it wasn't.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

By the way, I don't think Voltaire was right.

How long has this planet been spinning around the sun?
Can you think of a single currency that has held its value for even 1000 years?
What you are saying is pretty much what was said of the Roman coin, with Caesars image. It was the world currency, until it wasn't.

I'm a believer in the idea that those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

You make it sound, to me, that nothing has been learned since Caesar and that an unavoidable result is on the horizon.

I guess that's why we have Bulls and Bears. Everyday, they each seem certain that growth or, alternatively, collapse is eminent.

It seems President Trump's view is to seek economic expansion and he has some very learned advisors to help him, and us, achieve growth and to see the glass as half full.

I wouldn't sell short on America right now but some would.

By the way, in answer to your question, No coin, in real dollars, has a stable value - not even gold coins; they have gone up. Caesar's coin is worth more today in purchasing power than it was in it's day.

quote:

It seems President Trump's view is to seek economic expansion and he has some very learned advisors to help him, and us, achieve growth and to see the glass as half full.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think "collapse is imminent". I intend to fully ride the economic expansion for as long as it lasts. I favor President Trump. I like Larry Kudlow. I see the glass as more than half full... for now.
But I also know that all good things eventually come to an end. I hope its not during my lifetime.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
But I also know that all good things eventually come to an end. I hope its not during my lifetime.

If I'm allowed to hope, I hope it's never.

quote:

No coin in, real dollars, has a stable value - not even gold coins; they have gone up. Caesar's coin is worth more today in purchasing power than it was in it's day.

Ahhh but Voltaire wasn't talking about the weight of the gold in the coin. When he talked about 'Fiat currency' he was talking about paper, not backed by the weight of the gold. Paper currency is only as good as the promises of the issuer.
Do you carry gold or paper in your wallet?

Old news, but trying to get this thread back on track.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/...X5Q597_0asVEMgJnWbwQ

Trump signs $1.8 billion autism funding bill

President Donald Trump signed the Autism Collaboration, Accountability, Research, Education and Support Act (CARES) into law Monday, which allocates $1.8 billion in funding over the next five years to help people with autism spectrum disorder and their families.

cont....

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
Old news, but trying to get this thread back on track.

There are a lot of ideas that go to the heart of President Trump's philosophy and belief in America.

The previous posts were about our president and his work in office. I wasn't going to discuss Chellim's latest post here because it would lead off the subject of Trump's presidency.

There are economic misconceptions around, not necessarily referring to anyone here, but members would do well to think through such things to clarify their own thinking.

It's also significant that the holidays are coming and reasonable discussion about President Trump requires some level of understanding. The left is trying to disparage President Trump's economic successes in any way they can.

Two of those ways are 1) the national debt and 2) the coming economic collapse they hope for. We should take those issues head on.

Just arrived today.

More than just counter the criticism though, we should put the left on the defensive.

We know how President Trump has a positive plan to deal with the economy.

But, can any leftist tell me how burgeoning our welfare rolls and offering free health care to illegal aliens lowers our national debt?

Doesn't that lead to an economic hardship on the United States?

How does unfunded Medicare for all reduce the national debt?

How does paying off every student loan lower the national debt?

The list goes on and on.

No. It looks like the left is not merely predicting an economic collapse. They are actively seeking to cause one.

The Leftist plan to deal with the economy is simple: Spend us into oblivion, blame it on the Rs (or Trump, or both) then use the crisis to justify more government and more control. Honestly, I haven’t seen the Rs other than PDJT doing anything to shrink government. Most of them seem just as happy as the Dims with big government, they just want to be holding the levers.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
The Leftist plan to deal with the economy is simple: Spend us into oblivion, blame it on the Rs (or Trump, or both) then use the crisis to justify more government and more control. Honestly, I haven’t seen the Rs other than PDJT doing anything to shrink government. Most of them seem just as happy as the Dims with big government, they just want to be holding the levers.

I couldn't agree more.

That's one of the reasons I would not, for instance, favor McCarthy for Speaker of the House if Republicans win back the House.

The guy hasn't exhibited any original leadership from what I can tell. He seems to borrow fortitude from others, instead of leading.

Too many Republicans are still under the thumb of special interests and under weak persons such as McCarthy.

Too long under the feckless tutorship of Ryan, McCarthy couldn't muster any original leadership in the current events. McCarthy had the chance to show what he is made of. He did. He brought nothing fresh to the table and is not a leader.

If Republicans get control of the House, it will be more than past time to do what is right for the country.

Republicans, for too long, have settled for weak leaders and poor results.

No more.

It seems President Trump wants to deliver for the people of the United States. He needs help in getting things through the swamped-up process. He doesn't need politician placeholders.

quote:

capitalism must collapse under its own weight.

what doesn't...eventually?

quote:

capitalism must collapse under its own weight.

Not true and whoever spouted this bullshit doesn’t understand economics.
Now back to the Trump channel.

The quote was:

"- like Marxist said that capitalism must collapse under its own weight." (said with disdain)

The poster left out an important part of the quote.

Capitalism vs Marxism, considering what the Dem candidates are spouting, IS the heart of the Trump channel.

President Trump is a capitalist and that's a center point of how he seeks to keep America great.

You're right, of course, the Marxists were not and are still not close to correct.

Marxist philosophy holds that capitalism must inevitably yield to socialism.

To wild applause, President Trump unapologetically promised us that under his watch, "America will never be a socialist country."

This is why conservatives are turning away from FoxNews:

Fox News Poll: Biden leads nomination race, tops Trump by 12 points in matchup

Really? Does anyone with a triple digit IQ actually believe this? This is a perfect example of why I do not give legitimacy to any polls, whether or not they favor my point of view. Pollsters can make polls say anything they wish.

Disgusting and intelligence-insulting