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| Member |
I'm neither a lover nor a hater of HD, they're just not my cup of tea. Two of my riding buddies ride the big hogs. Their bikes are much more comfortable (way more) for an extended ride, although they are heavy and evil handling compared to my R1. I can see how a person can fall in love with a HD. I do think they messed up by not expanding their line a bit... HD sport bikes are NOT sport bikes. The big 4 Japanese manufacturers all expanded their lines (sport, cruiser, touring, scooter, dirt, etc.) in the early 80s and now they seem to reach a much broader range of the riding market. It may be a bit late for HD. I don't think HD has another 40 years to mimic the big 4. My $0.02. | |||
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| When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor |
Fot that reason I bought a quality jack when I got my first HD. The cost of the jack was around four hundred. But I change all three fluids for about $70 using top quality synthetic oils. Beats the charge of at least double in the dealer. Indies are better. | |||
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Member |
In 1983, Erik Buell founded The Buell Motorcycle company., in an effort to alleviate the effects of the... Anyone? Anyone? ...the lack of American made V Twin sportbikes?, produced the... Anyone? Anyone? The RW 750 Road Warrior? The S2 Thunderbolt? Which, anyone? Standard seating positions or race forward? ...raised performance , in an effort to provide more enjoyment for street riders and racers? In 1993 Harley Davidson had aquired 49% of Buell . Did it work? Anyone? Anyone know the effects? On October 15, 2009, Harley-Davidson announced the discontinuation of the Buell product line as part of its strategy to focus on the Harley-Davidson brand. The last Buell motorcycle was produced on October 30, 2009, bringing the number manufactured to 136,923. It did not work, and the United States sank deeper into the rider depression caused by a lack of American Made Sport motorcycles. Today we have a similar debate over this. Anyone know what this is? Class? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone seen this before? Buell? Buell? ____________________ Blessed be the Lord, my Rock | |||
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Dirty Boat Guy |
Yeah man, Fortnine is damned good at making quality, funny, and informative videos. A penny saved is a government oversight. | |||
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| Banned |
I think H-D is in the same boat as motorsports. No interest by younger America. I fear both will go the way of the babyboomers. As they gradually go away so will H-D and motorsports. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
^^^ What makes you think that boomers are the last vestige of the American motorsport market?
Oh, give me a break. Harley committed to new engines, frames and body work - a completely different motorcycle. Then they plugged no resources into developing Buells, kyped the engine that was being developed and bastardized it into a "new, more efficient" cruiser engine, and then told everyone that they had no choice but to shutter Buell. | |||
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| Did you come from behind that rock, or from under it?  |
I rode a '96 Buell S2T from 1996 until 2002. Modded the engine and had a lot of fun riding it. Absolute hoot to ride in the mountains. The MSRP back then was $12k and parts weren't cheap but it responded well to tweaking. Buells got kinda popular at one point after the Lightnings came out but they were never really accepted by the core H-D crowd. Even when Buell sales were peaking most Buell owners weren't considered part of the true H-D brethren. In many places the best it got you was that it was OK to park near H-Ds at events and not be relegated to parking with Japanese bikes. The H-D faithful didn't like them, H-D execs didn't understand them, too many sportbike riders wouldn't pay more for American when Japanese bikes were hundreds (sometimes thousands) less. Damned shame. I sold mine in 2002 just before the resale value started really tanking. I liked the bike but wasn't willing take a bloodbath on resale. I bought a like-new '02 Kawasaki ZZR1200 someone had just traded in and moved on. My buddy also had a S2 and waited too long, roughly six months later he got less on a retail sale than I got via trade. Sad but it boils down to H-D's myopia and mishandling: Buells just became H-D's red-headed step-child. They could have stuck it out and made Buell into something special but just they let it die. Sort of reminds me of a line from the Rick and Morty show: "No, you’re right. Let’s do it the dumbest way possible. Because it’s easier for you." "Every time you think you weaken the nation" Moe Howard | |||
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| Member |
All you guys who think that what the American motorcycle rider really craves is liter-bike techology and performance have obviously never actually worked in the motorcycle industry or seen the sales trends for 600 and 1000cc hyper sports bikes. If you think H-D sales are down, supersports sales are barely measurable compared to the heyday in the 90s. That's the primary reason why motorcycle road racing is dead in this country. BTW, as far as H-D sales go, there are today about 3 million H-D motorcycles registered in the US, which is the highest that number has ever been. It's a fallacy that American riders don't want the type of bikes H-D sells, but there is also no doubt that a huge volume of good condition late-model used bikes available in the market has put increased pressure on new bike sales. Finally, all this hand-wringing about "loud pipes" reminds me of the way anti-gunners use the "assault weapons" boogeyman to assault the 2A. There is no serious scale to the problem, but it's an easy target to blow completely out of proportion and use as a lever to divert attention from real issues. | |||
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| Made from a different mold  |
Disagree. I think the bigger issue is coverage. We just don't have the network coverage like there is everywhere else in the world, where most races are shown on local channels for free. If given a chance to watch, I would bet that most of the NASCAR crowd would probably drop the left turns in favor of high speeds, risky passing, and hellacious wrecks. Once that happened here, more races would probably take place because that same crowd would be looking to go to actual races. Kind of an "if you build it, they will come" deal. ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| Member |
So what are the real issues at HD as a company? Or are they doing just fine? It does seem like with their current line up they are fucked as far as getting younger customers. | |||
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| Member |
Road racing in recent years has been on NBC Sports and is now on Fox Sports. In fact, next weekend Moto America will be racing at Road America and the races will be live on FS2. But the Japanese manufactures who poured millions of dollars into the sport to sell bikes and fund teams for a couple of decades have completely pulled away from the sport. There are no longer any big four factory teams left. Even Yoshimura Suzuki is gone. That money paid also for the ads that fueled the TV broadcasts for years. | |||
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| Member |
I’m 40 years old and have had motorcycles since I was 6 years old and I’ve never understood the appeal of a Harley. Big, heavy, shit brakes, and really no power for the size of the engine. My dad has one and I rode it once and that was it for me, I don’t get why people like motorcycles that don’t stop for a damn and drag parts on the ground through corners. I’ll stick with BMW and Aprilia for my rides, I don’t have to dress like a pirate to ride them either. I think what happens is people buy Harley for the lifestyle. I’ve always thought there were two types of rider, one that love to ride and one that loves to be seen riding, I believe a lot of Harley owners are the latter of the two. | |||
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| Member |
I don't know what all the issues are, but they do still generate a profit of several hundred million dollars a year. But to watch the video in the OP, you'd think they were on the verge of bankruptcy. Just look at the earnings statements. Sure, the trend is going down, but they are still making a lot of money selling bikes. I'll also challenge you to explain why younger customers are the goal? If the sweet spot of heavyweight bike ownership is 45-65, why not target those customers? H-D has successfully benefitted from this strategy for decades. Let the other brands sell cheap dirt bikes and entry level street bikes to newer riders, and then swoop in once those guys decide they are happy to slow down a bit and take a few longer trips a year in comfort with Momma on the back once they have more time and money on their hands. | |||
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| Member |
So how do you explain Hayabusa owners?  | |||
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| Member |
Baby boomers are going to stop or drastically reduce buying bikes (especially new ones) very soon. That is a very tough demographic curve to counter. Some might say impossible. Prior generations have a much smaller head count than today's baby boomers. Again, another very tough demographic curve to counter. Smaller future markets and diminishing markets today just don't seem like a recipe for success. | |||
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Member |
Your categorization of some Harley owners is no doubt true (same with some BMW, KTM, and Ducati posers) but for me, and the few Harley riders I know, it couldn't be farther from the truth. Shit brakes? I guess 4 piston calipers gripping twin 300mm discs that can lock the front wheel with two fingers aren't good enough for you? Yes some are too low to corner aggressively, some of the cruisers only have one front disc but so are some Honda's, Yamaha/Star's/Kawasaki's, and Suzuki's, Guzzi's, etc. My 2015 Road King does pretty well, actually better than the GL1800 it replaced and it's FAR more comfortable and enjoyable to tour on. To be honest if I were to have only one motorcycle there's nothing in Harley's current line-up that would work for me, the supposedly upcoming Pan America would be the closest thing that might. But Harley does do touring motorcycles well and the newer ones run, handle, and stop just fine. I will admit that was not the case in 1999 when I felt Harley's Electra Glide was almost dangerous with its flexy frame, dreadful brakes, and inadequate power. That's why I went with a Honda Goldwing, but times have changed. No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride. | |||
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fugitive from reality |
It's the NASCAR crowd that killed coverage for any other kind of racing in the US. Much like the HD crowd, they just aren't interested in anything but their own brand of fun. The Indy 500 is their idea of an exotic race. 15 or so years ago I used to watch world rally and moto GP on the speed channel. I can still find the occasional bike race on some remote channel, but NASCAR threw so much sponsor money at speed it pushed everything else off the air. _____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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Member |
Twice the price for half the performance is what we always say. Heavy, poor brakes, poor handling, it just doesn’t do anything well. But not surprising, the designs are 50 years old. Slow as hell too. I ride in a full armored suit, armored gloves and boots, chest/back protector and full face helmet. Heaps of track time and rider training. I’ll stick to fast bikes that were built to perform, lean, lay darkies, and have monster front brakes. Brembo and Ohlins are my favorites. I’ll never get the bandana vest crowd. It’s always been an image thing to me. I sport ride. Riding slow in a straight line to the bar is boring as fuck. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Member |
Everybody turns 40 some day, if they are lucky. And Harley doesn't need to convert 50 million people. But they do need to bring new people into the sport (of any age) while keeping existing riders and converting a few over from other brands. That's what the electric and ADV bikes are designed to do. | |||
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