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It's not just HD, overall motorcycle sales in the US are down. In 2005 there were over 1,000,000 motorcycles of all types sold here, today it's around half that number, in spite of me doing everything I can..... I have another one on order now.  I believe the teenagers in the 1960's that fueled the growth of the Japanese motorcycle industry were largely the same people who got back into riding to create the HD boom 30 years later. That group are now around 70 years of age and most of them are selling their bikes if they already haven't. And there's no new group of young riders like the one in the 60's and 70's to take over. It's not about money or income, because you can ride a motorcycle for very little money, it's an overall lack of interest in riding. No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride. | |||
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I'm 43 and got back into riding few years ago. I have a Harley 1200 Custom Sportster. It is fun to ride (for a little while), looks great, and it sounds awesome to my ears with the custom pipes that it wears. However, the more I ride the more I am looking for performance and comfort. After about 45 minutes I'm starting to feel like I'm enduring the ride rather than enjoy it. To stay on a Harley and get the comfort I'm starting to desire, I have to get a bike that is a lot less fun to handle. Now enter the Ducati Diavel. I can get comfort for hours, incredible performance ( and I do mean incredible) and a a pretty cool all around bike. Sure it doesn't have the Harley V-twin rumble but I think I can live without that for the other things that I gain. Trade out the Ducati Diavel for any number of bikes from other manufacturers. I happen to think the BMW Adventure bikes have a ton going for them as well. I notice that a lot of those bikes seem to have a ton of miles put on them and I see a lot of really cool looking Harleys with relatively low miles. I can't help but think that the reason is that one is a lot more fun to ride than the other. Sure Harley looks and sounds cool, but you give up a lot to get those things compared to a lot of other bikes. Personally, I would like to have both, but I'm getting to the point where if I can only justify one motorcycle in the garage, it isn't going to be a Harley. I'm going to choose fun, comfort, and performance, as opposed to looks and sound. The only question is, what am I going to do with my $500 Harley jacket when the Diavel takes the place of the Sportster!  Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong. Do everything in love. - 1 Corinthians 16:13-14 | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
^^^ Sell it to some Bohemian as an ironic antique? | |||
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Fair, here's a better cited report: https://canadamotoguide.com/20...th-about-loud-pipes/ Same conclusions. __________________________________ An operator is someone who picks up the phone when I dial 0. | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
I haven't riden since all of my gear was stolen. It was right around the time my first child was born and the money to replace my Aerostich Roadcrafter, Shoei RF900 (ya, it's been awhile), Alpinestar boots and gloves was used for other things. They also stole my Dianese leathers and back protector, so racing and track days stopped as well. At one point I owned 7 motorcycles, I am down to 3. My dad had a Softail Deuce that I put 1,000 miles on to break it in. I've ridden a few others including a few Buells. Typical Harleys just don't do it for me. On the other hand, if I had seen that XR 1200 in the video when it was available, I might have started riding again. | |||
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fugitive from reality |
If an insurance company sees an increased cost to insure a market segment, their premiums go up. It's just that simple.This message has been edited. Last edited by: SgtGold, _____________________________ 'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'. | |||
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| Member |
Have you demo'd a Road King or the new M8 softail? They're certainly not sport bikes but they handle pretty darn well and once set up right are very comfortable. I found that my 2015 Road King handled so much nicer than the FXDXI Super Glide Sport so ended up selling the Dyna. Have you actually ridden one? I've not but just to my eye a Diavel looks more like a power cruiser than something that is comfortable or handles well. One nice thing about Harleys is they are pretty simple and inexpensive to service. I bet a main service at every 15-18,000 miles on a Diavel is over $1,000. No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride. | |||
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You have 3 motorcycles but don't ride them anymore since your gear was stolen? No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride. | |||
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Spoken by an Insurance agent? When will you guys stop beating a dead horse? ********* "Some people are alive today because it's against the law to kill them". | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
I observe some really "strange" behavior on the part of motorcycle riders in traffic around here. Speeding (and I don't mean 5-10 over the limit) Practically steeple chasing through traffic passing between cars, tailgating cars while apparently trying to get them to drive faster. I seem to see more of those 3 wheel vehicles recently. I rode a mid-sized Honda abut 4 decades ago, back during the first phony oil crisis. Had to travel to cover customer service calls and to get to college courses. CB360 was the only way. I enjoyed riding, but got to the point that I chose not to risk it anymore. Car and truck drivers just seemed to be blind to motorcycles. A co-worker of mine ended up rolling down the road just behind his bike when a stupid broad pulled out in front of him. He was doing 55! She told the cop that she had seen him but thought he could stop! My FIL (in Germany) road a very nice midsize BMW. His only means of travel at the time. He bought a small car and was selling his bike. I wanted to buy it (great price) but wife said no. This was about 1960 or so. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
I'm 52 and my kids are 9, 12, and 13. Other family oriented activities have taken priority over riding. We have 3 ATVs for trail riding. We do a lot of camping with the 5th wheel, which includes biking and kayaking. I bought a 26' bow rider with an 8.1 liter big block for tubing, water skiing , and wakeboarding. It's not like my life is over because I'm not riding anymore. Plus, compared to Wisconsin, or Tennessee, riding in Florida is boring. | |||
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| Made from a different mold  |
Has anyone looked at the price of these bikes lately? While we're at it, lets look at weight too. I want a Road King for cruising but I just can't bring myself to spend a fortune for something that is only gonna be ridden occasionally, even less than my 15 year old Jap bike that cost less than a HD oil change  . Let's not forget that a lot of people are finding out that the MoCo has began sourcing parts outside of the USA which has soured a lot of diehards. Now the bikes are more or less "assembled in the USA", not "Made in the USA".___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
No, it isn't, when a state legislation and governor give in to public demands and they don't like doing it, then they load up the law with unreasonable demands on insurance coverage, like $200K in med coverage, which can more than triple the cost of coverage on a car, truck, boat or bike. Nobody is required to carry that kind of med coverage in a car, and yet there are thousands upon thousands more car claims and deaths than motorcycles per year. We have a Helmet Choice law here in FL, ride with it or without, your choice, amazing, kinda libertarian-conservative anti government intrusion law. Amazing when you read gun rights owners questioning the veracity of liberty based laws like helmet options, especially in the name of safety, insurance costs, or because they don't feel it's right to be able to do it... MI motorcycle rates didn't go up because people gained the right to decide if they want to wear a helmet or not, it went up because pissed of legislators jacked the minimum requirements. | |||
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| Member |
OK 3 ATV's that makes sense. Riding ATV's (and UTV's) on trails is fun! You have plenty of toys! No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride. | |||
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| Did you come from behind that rock, or from under it?  |
I've been riding mini-bikes, dirt bikes and motorcycles since I was a kid. Currently ride a Honda CB1100EX and a BMW R1200R. Over the years I've owned Honda, Kawasaki, Buell, H-D and BMW. As for H-D I've owned a Sportster, Heritage, FLHTC, Dyna and FLTR. Also used to be service manager at a H-D dealership in the 2000's. In other words: I like motorcycles regardless of brand and I just plain like riding them. FortNine's video may be snarky but it is pretty accurate. H-D placed too much emphasis on "lifestyle" which was OK in the short term but they mangled Buell and completely wasted the V-Rod engine's potential by confining it to cruisers. Their many missteps, piss-poor planning and dismissive attitude towards sport bike riders is now biting them in the ass. Forcing dealerships in the 90s to enlarge so they could be stuffed with clothes, H-D branded undies, knick-knacks, etc. also removed a lot of character - the stores all frickin look alike now. And that's not a good thing. Pipe noise. Seriously? quoting info from a personal injury shyster disproves the loud pipes debate? That thar's pure comedy. The federal 80db standard seems too low and open drag pipes are definitely way too loud but somewhere around 90-95 db can sound pretty darn good. If you like dead quiet that's great but there's no need to be a Karen about it. Perhaps some time spent fact-checking motorcycle safety via Joan Claybrook might kick it up a notch. H-D has their work cut out for them to stay viable and attract new riders but I hope they're able to do it without resorting to building chiffon-trimmed pastel scooters equipped with seat belts. "Every time you think you weaken the nation" Moe Howard | |||
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Wear it! I saw a guy in HD leathers, yesterday in Flagstaff, riding a modern Vespa kinda scooter thing. I got a good laugh. | |||
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| Member |
I have ridden other Harley's but not the Road King. I have ridden the newer softails, including the 114 FatBob. I was expecting to fall in love with it but I just didn't. The Street Glide was the one I thought might be the sweet spot for me, but I'm just left underwhelmed by it. I have also ridden a Diavel and in that case I wasn't expecting to like it much at all. Within 5 minutes I was hooked on it. It is comfortable, responsive, and extremely powerful, yet very smooth. I also appreciate the way the front end rolls the wind right up over the top of the rider. From an engineering standpoint it was just obviously better. I agree with you in that by just looking at the Diavel I wouldn't think it would be as comfortable to ride as it is, but it really is an amazing piece of engineering. Had I not ridden one I wouldn't even have considered it, but a good friend has one and kept telling me to try it. You make a good point with the maintenance, but Ducati is even getting better with that, as they must have obviously recognized it as a sore point with potential buyers. The first service isn't due for like 20K miles or something like that....I could be off on the number but the point is they are not as expensive to maintain as they used to be.....Still not as good as my Sportster though. I say all this still liking Harley and not wanting to see them fail, but as I grow in experience as a rider, and am starting to realize more of what I want out of riding, I have to admit that they are starting to lose me. Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong. Do everything in love. - 1 Corinthians 16:13-14 | |||
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| Member |
Medical coverage is the majority of your premium. A cheap $2000 motorcycle is paltry compared to the hundreds of thousands of dollars that can be incurred through medical bills. Think ER visits, surgery, years of rehab, etc. $200,000 of medical coverage seems about right to cover a full recovery from a decent sized wreck. As an example, my broken nose and 13 stitches from a sports accident was $30,000 in bills. Luckily my insurance covered all but about $600. __________________________________ An operator is someone who picks up the phone when I dial 0. | |||
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| Member |
There is a guy in my neighborhood who does something very similar! I get a bit of a chuckle every time I see him. I definitely don't want to be that guy....Maybe I'll just sell it to the Bohemian... Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong. Do everything in love. - 1 Corinthians 16:13-14 | |||
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| Member |
Scrolling down is your friend where I include an additional source. But I'll sum it up: doppler effect and noise-insulated cars. Those don't change whether it's from a lawyer, insurance salesman, or random dude on the internet. __________________________________ An operator is someone who picks up the phone when I dial 0. | |||
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