quote:

Originally posted by dewhorse:
I think it was Netflix that has a documentary on the family and they way they were battling the local cartels.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIyaIHsJbc

It’s VICE, so take it with a grain of salt.

My understanding is that current Mormon colonies in northern Mexico would be considered mainstream members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. A friend of mine grew up in one of them, attended BYU (church owned school), and his parents have visited him and his family here in California. They're US citizens.

My concern is whether the Mexican government has the will, power and integrity to pursue, capture and prosecute these criminals. What would be USA's expectations from London, Tel Avi, Buenos Aires if nine US citizens were slaughtered in those countries?

It is shocking actually what has happened. I hope it becomes a turning point. We need to get things sorted out on our border, our back yard, and internally. I hope Mexico actually asks for help.

I am not a hawk, this is to do with our internal security, as it is spilling over the border. Wake up, build a wall and protect and defend it, and do what is needed to kill the cartels (economically and with weapons)

One thing though- if they are a polygamist sect of Mormons, I expect the media will diminish what has happened, because they don't fit any sort of feminist agenda. I hope I am wrong and this gets the attention it actually deserves.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ59:
My understanding is that current Mormon colonies in northern Mexico would be considered mainstream members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Not remotely so.

At this point it sounds like they were traveling in a caravan for safety and may have been mistaken for a rival drug gang.
Having more than one vehicle but no actual way to defend themselves seems to be an illusion of safety.
In any case this was a family situation with two 8 month old babies and mostly small children that were killed. The vehicle was full of bullet holes and burned pretty completely, form the description. There doesn't seem to be any connection to them being involved with drugs or crime at this point but the news is still developing.
Probably a good idea right now to just wait to see what develops.
This is probably a good reminder why Para doesn't like breaking news stories threads and prefers to wait until some of the dust settles before wild speculation takes over.

Not a surprise, there is a huge cartel war raging there right now. Tragic yes but not a surprise.

“Breaking” and incomplete news stories don’t obligate anyone to engage in wild speculation before more information is available. The BS news media is (rightfully) often accused of that, but the rest of us could demonstrate better judgment.

Were these individuals (and others of this "Mormons in Mexico" group) US citizens, or Mexican citizens?

They were both. Dual citizenship.

These groups went to Mexico to avoid US prosecution, both for polygamy and for a long series of murders, contracts, and hits between them on each other's groups and families (and as mentioned before, the burning of an entire villiage).

Ervil Lebaron was eventually extradited back to the US and died in prison, but many of the family members have escaped prosecution, and yet make few bones about their activities.

Maybe the Kurds, who did a good job with ISIS and may need a new home, could lend the Mexican government a hand on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Maybe the Kurds, who did a good job with ISIS and may need a new home, could lend the Mexican government a hand on this one.

We should just give them Mexico.
They clean it, they can keep it.

This may not be about politics or religion but it is about culture. The Mexican gov't has been corrupt for so many generations it has destroyed the culture. That culture tolerates the drug cartels. A prominent ideology in these United States believes all cultures to be equal so no border wall. I'm here to tell you, I lived in Mexico for years. You do not want that culture here nor do you want it affecting this culture measurably. Sorry, not sorry. I love Mexico. I love the people I knew there. But it is a deadly place these days.

Spent a lot of time in Mexico. Haven't been back in over ten years. Mexico is a shit hole.

I'm pretty sure they've been gunning down Mexican women and children for a while now. We're just noticing it since the ones hit this time were American.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
Stay focused folks...

The reason they were there, or their history, is not the salient point. The important take-away is that Mexico’s violence problem seems to permit the gunning down of women and children. The country is a violent, out of control hot mess.

Regardless of their status as polygamists or members of a less than savory religious or family group, they were AMERICANS.
And the animals who did this shot down the kids.
Does anyone think that the people who did this would hesitate to fire on you and your kids while you visited Mexico, if you dared?
And if these same people find their way into the US, will they suddenly reform and become productive, law abiding citizens?
I recently posted that Mexico is the greatest external danger to the US and other members said it was China.
Its Mexico.

The reason for modern day outrage or even mild disapproval of polygamy is a complete mystery to me.

According to a Yale University article, in 2014 29 percent of so-called “white” children were born out of wedlock (unmarried mother), 53 percent of Hispanic children were (despite the supposed much stronger influence of religion in Hispanics’ lives), and 71 percent of children born to black mothers were. Hardly anyone bats an eye these days about such facts, and often not being married when pregnant and giving birth actually confers significant advantages on the mother.

And yet, having more than one “wife” or being “married” to a man with more than one woman whom he considers to be a wife rather than just a shack job or semen recepticle is reprehensible at best and illegal in most places.

When the US national average for out of wedlock births is 40(!) percent, and now it’s possible for a woman to have a wife (or woman “husband”) or a man to have a husband (or man “wife”) why in the ever-lovin’, blue-eyed world does it matter how many women call themselves the wives of one man‽

And yes, I am aware there can be legal issues involved and that the history of LDS church polygamy is rife with stories of coercion and maltreatment of plural wives. Those are, however, fundamentally no different than the countless legal problems surrounding legal marriages or unmarried parents, or the common mistreatment of women by their partners in any type of relationship. Those are separate issues unrelated to the basic question of whether we should be concerned that a man is living with more than one woman that went through the marriage rite with him.

I grok that.

Things are different in Mexico. During the Mob days in Chicago or New York (or Cleveland, or Las Vegas and on and on), if the organized criminals had pulled that kind of shit, the other mobsters themselves would have cleaned up the mess. It would bring too much unwanted heat.

If left unchecked, the drug groups (I don't know what to call them) will continue to move above the border. The problem will continue to get worse. If the criminal coddling political groups (GDCs) won't allow the police to stop it, the patriotic Americans will put an end to it. I do have to ask, is it too early to start shooting the bastards?

It might be less of a problem if they stayed south of the border, but their income is drug smuggling. The network extends up here.

These bastards, and I use the term correctly I think, just killed a bunch of babies. And their mothers, too. That ain't right.

Things we know: The drug cartels killed some dual citizen people and kids while they were traveling in a convoy. Yes it is horrible but we know the cartels kill women and children everyday in Mexico.

We don't know why the family was targeted:
1. Mistaken identity? Possibly.
2. Sending a message? Possibly.
3. Wrong place, wrong time? Possibly.
4. This just a speculation on my part; scenario where a family with an extensive past history of violence and murder among their many crimes, may have been involved in drug trade in some fashion (working with one cartel or doing their own drug trafficking. I looked up Ervil LeBaron, wow he was an evil bastard. Ordered 25 murders FROM prison. Family has a history of crime from 1890s to 1920s to 1980s.

More information on the Church of the Firstborn (LeBaron order)

Polygamy? Guys, children were slaughtered, and you can bet that their last moments were absolute horror. I haven't read this thread because I'm too angry about the incident and all I see is the last few posts on this page, so I don't know who is making an issue of the religion or the views on marriage of these people, but these were innocent people, and they were Americans, and they were slaughtered by complete savages. Barbarians had greater character than this slime, this fungus, this filth who murdered these poor people.

Let's stick to what matters, please.