Sounds like you are not a wrench turner. So buying an older Jeep $5k will end up costing you more than a newer Toyota and after all the work and expense you will have a very expense chrysler product worth very little with ton's of miles and age on it. Bad move.

And no, there won't be funds after the above to buy an nice toyota in addition

Nope. I have changed brake pads and carburetors and master cylinders but nothing harder than that. No engine internals or suspension stuff.

Ok. Keep with 4Runner

Sorry to revive this thread. Can you help me understand a little more detail re: 4WD vs AWD?

I'm still searching for a 4runner. I found two Limited editions. One is V6 with 4WD. The other is V8 and AWD (full time 4WD).

Again, with my anticipated usages in mind, why would I prefer 4WD over AWD? Or am I indifferent based on my usages? The AWD is capable of 4H and 4L (with a locking center diff). I'm still not getting the nuance between 4WD and AWD.

Thanks!

Summary of anticipated usages:
Generally driveable terrain but may have "deep" ruts. Ground may be soft sand and/or mud. (Beaches, fire roads, forest, river/lake side, snow/rain). May go through shallow streams. Hiking, Kayaking, Biking, Camping. No rock climbing anticipated. But do expect to go riverside, lakeside, beach side to unload/load kayaks (or maybe wave runners someday). No areas know to be prone to stuck vehicles. No 'expert' level paths were prior training is generally advised. Novice-intermediate paths only. But - I don't want to get stuck where there is no cell phone coverage (several places like that already visited). I'm too old to have to hike back to civilization.

Get the 4wd.

I might be mistaken but I seem to recall that Limiteds are all full time 4WD not AWD. I have only owned 5th generation 4R's so if I am wrong I hope one of the more well versed owners will correct this.
Have you taken the time to visit:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/

There is a wealth of info there. It is the Sigforum of 4Runners. I seem to recall you might be from Hawaii. At least one of the members is also from there. I think he goes by Flyin' Hawaiian or something similar. If you can find a post by him, he may be a good resource for you. It is a very friendly group like this one.

Thanks. As I understand it (per wiki):

1) 4th gen Limited 2002-2009: V6 is 4WD, V8 is full time 4WD
2) 5th gen Limited 2009+: full time 4WD only.

What's the difference between full time 4WD and AWD?

I see 3 used 4th gens:
1) SR5 (reasonably priced)
2) V6 Limited (priced a little high)
3) V8 Limited (reasonably priced)

Still hoping for a 2009 Trail though.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Sorry to revive this thread. Can you help me understand a little more detail re: 4WD vs AWD?

On the 4Runners, all but the limited are a 4WD system. Meaning that they are part-time four wheel drive. They are a rear wheel drive vehicle until 4wd is activated by the transfer case sending some of the power forward to the front axle. The limited uses an AWD or full-time 4 wheel drive system. There is always some power going forward to the front axle.

This is one of the few cases where the "AWD" option is better than the 4WD option. In the 4th Gen 4Runner the center diff options work like this:

V6:
2WD HI (standard driving mode)
4WD HI-center diff unlocked
4WD HI-center diff locked
4WD Lo-center diff unlocked
4WD Lo-center diff locked

V8 AWD:
4WD HI-center diff unlocked (standard driving mode)
4WD HI-center diff locked
4WD Lo-center diff unlocked
4WD Lo-center diff locked

So all Toyota did was remove the RWD only option with the V8 engine. I have read they were concerned that the V8 had too much torque (300 ft-lbs) and would break the rear tires loose too easily in 2WD only.

In the V6 you can only switch from 2WD HI to 4WD HI at less than 50 mph. So if you were cruising down the highway at 65 mph and encountered heavy rain, snow, or patches of ice you would have to first slow down quite a bit before engaging 4WD HI.

In the V8 you are already always in 4WD HI, so changing road conditions at highway speeds don't require you do to anything.

I also really like how the center diff can be locked independently of 4HI or 4LO. I have used 4LO with the center diff unlocked to pull my boat out of a very steep boat ramp several times. The rear wheels were in the water, but the ramp was concrete and I needed to turn, so I wanted to leave the diff open while still having the extra torque and traction of 4LO.

Overall it's a great system with lots of flexibility and one of the reasons I love my 2007 V8 Limited. The second reason is the 4.7L V8 is such a smooth and torquey engine it really makes the 4Runner much more capable and enjoyable to drive.

Also the V8 T4R center diff is a Torsen style limited slip diff, so even when unlocked in 4HI it's still sending power to the front wheels as it's not an open diff. This should help:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/...r-diff-question.html

quote:

Originally posted by 2000Z-71:

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Sorry to revive this thread. Can you help me understand a little more detail re: 4WD vs AWD?

On the 4Runners, all but the limited are a 4WD system. Meaning that they are part-time four wheel drive. They are a rear wheel drive vehicle until 4wd is activated by the transfer case sending some of the power forward to the front axle. The limited uses an AWD or full-time 4 wheel drive system. There is always some power going forward to the front axle.

Ah. Thanks. These sounded the same to me but I did a little more digging and it sounds like one key between full time 4WD and AWD is the ability to make sure at least front or rear have some traction (via LSD / locking center differential). Which the Limited has (Torsen LSD Locking center diff). Also, AWD typically do not have a 4L setting?

Still trying to understand this more but sounds like there are meaningful differences between full time 4wd and AWD. Lots to learn...

4WD can be either 2 or 4 wheel drive depending on how the transfer case is set. When in 4WD the center differential is locked. This should not be used on pavement as there can be binding which can damage the drivetrain.

Full time 4WD (my Limited) is 4WD at all times with a Torson center differential that can be locked if needed. It always operates in 4WD and I find it very tractable in rain also, more so than my previous Trail which was conventional 4WD. It also has a Low and High range which are locked. Off pavement when H or L locked range is selected.

All Wheel Drive is pretty much 2 wheel drive but can apportion torque between the front and rear axle if needed. I do know some can lock the center differential (Subaru for one) but I do not think 4R's have AWD. AWD works very well on pavement but is not as robust as 4WD for off road situations. And yes there are offroad racers that use AWD like the World Rally Cars but they are torn down after every race and are not in the realm most of us operate in.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
This is one of the few cases where the "AWD" option is better than the 4WD option. In the 4th Gen 4Runner the center diff options work like this:

Thanks! Good info. I'm starting to understand the utility of 2WD vs 4WD and 4H vs 4L. I guess I need to think more about a locked/unlocked center diff.

But it sounds like the Limited is not really considered AWD but more full time 4WD with 4L/4H and a locking center diff. Which is good to go for my usages?

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
This is one of the few cases where the "AWD" option is better than the 4WD option. In the 4th Gen 4Runner the center diff options work like this:

Thanks! Good info. I'm starting to understand the utility of 2WD vs 4WD and 4H vs 4L. I guess I need to think more about a locked/unlocked center diff.

But it sounds like the Limited is not really considered AWD but more full time 4WD with 4L/4H and a locking center diff. Which is good to go for my usages?

I've done basically everything you describe as "anticipated uses" in the tan 2008 SR5 V8 that I posted the picture of on page 3. It had a 3" coil over suspension upgrade (forget the brand), BFG A/T tires, and some other little bits here and there. The biggest challenge would be deep soft sand. We never went into any sand too deep as that SR5 did not have a locking rear diff but that can be added aftermarket. If you think you may be at risk of getting stuck near waters edge get a winch so you can at least pull yourself out.

Test drive one first of course, but I would get another 4th Gen V8 4Runner in a heartbeat. The V6 feels anemic by comparison and doesn't really get any better gas mileage.

quote:

Originally posted by Brett B:
Test drive one first of course, but I would get another 4th Gen V8 4Runner in a heartbeat. The V6 feels anemic by comparison and doesn't really get any better gas mileage.

Thanks for the benefit of your experience. Okay, the 4th gen v8 Limited is on the table; I'll look into having a winch installed (I assume this is straightforward and typical).

AWD drive will have a small negative impact on your MPG too compared to selectable 4WD.

In regards to the winch, you'll more than likely have to get an aftermarket bumper. May be able to tuck one behind the factory bumper, but wouldn't count on it. Winches can open up a can of worms too in regards to a second battery, wiring, switches and the likes.

quote:

Originally posted by MattW:
AWD drive will have a small negative impact on your MPG too compared to selectable 4WD.

In regards to the winch, you'll more than likely have to get an aftermarket bumper. May be able to tuck one behind the factory bumper, but wouldn't count on it. Winches can open up a can of worms too in regards to a second battery, wiring, switches and the likes.

Yipes. Okay, thanks for the heads-up. Lots to investigate here. Sounds like maybe counting on a "buddy" and tow straps is a cheaper but maybe good enough alternative

You don't really want to go "off road" at all, sounds like you might want to go off pavement--maybe. If you like Toyotas, buy the best one you can find for $20k or less.

Hope you find what you're looking for.

Off road vs off pavement -- yea, that's probably more like it. I'm just not really up on all the different terminology and nuances. All still new to me.

Off asphalt but still on some sort of recognizable road / path / trail is probably me.

Couple of good tow straps and a friend should suit you fine. Again, carry a good compressor and air down when getting into the soft stuff, especially sand.

I'm partial to my Toyota FJ Cruiser. Best retained value still. It does a good job even stock.

I agree with bubbatime.

Jeep Cherokee 4x4 for $5K or less, for offroad. My friend was selling a Grand Cherokee 4x4 with leather and a V8 for less than that and it would have been a perfect vehicle for what you are looking for. A 3" inch lift kit and tires will make it even better.

You can buy a jeep grand cherokee WJ 1999-2004 for less than 5k, with 4.7l V8, leather and quadra drive 4x4 with front and rear limited slip differentials. Mine will go just about anywhere, parts are CHEAP, it can tow 7klbs and if you mess it up who cares.

all these guys with the jeep wranglers all fixed up NEVER take them off roading because they dont want scratches.