There were at least several places in our recent visit to the Mono Lake area which were restricted to 4WD vehicles only. And some of them suggesting 'expert' off-road experience (whatever that means).

Even went to one place (Panum Craters) where I had to back out and find another road because there was a spot with dips in the dirt road where I'm sure my car would have gotten stuck. As it was, the dirt road had a 'hump' in the middle between tire tracks that kept hitting the bottom of my car somewhere (I would hear thumps, sproings and something like the sound of bottles clanging) - I hope the car is okay. And also there were soft/deep sand spots where I was worried I would get stuck if I stopped.

So I'd like to buy a 4WD vehicle that would allow me more freedom to roam (ie - drive on the soft sand dirt road bordering Mono Lake if anyone is familiar).

I've never had a truck or SUV before. I'm leaning toward an SUV if it's all the same. I'm definitely on a budget (say less than $20k, lower the better so I'm probably limited to a used vehicle).

I see things like Toyota Sequoia, Land Cruiser, Forerunner, Lexus RX330 - I'm partial to Toyota for cars.

I'm not planning to climb rocks or anything. I think primarily something that will enable me to go on snow, soft/deep sand (beaches), dirt roads, bumpy roads, etc.


Any high level recommendations:
1) brand / make
2) specific features (4WD, AWD, transmission, differential, suspension, wheels, ground clearance, whatever)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: konata88,

Used 4Runner or Land Cruiser/Lexus LX for true 4wd. The Lexus RX is only all wheel drive.

You're discussing two different types of vehicles here.

"Not looking to climb rocks or anything" and "enable you to go on snow, soft/deep sand, dirt roads, bumpy roads" includes just about anything not purely car based with 4WD/AWD and decent ground clearance and approach-departure angles. In the car based segment, Subarus are competent and popular in this niche.

4WD only, "expert off road experience suggested" says something entirely different to me, as does your title - a 4WD vehicle for off-road use. In that category, buying new, you're looking at a Jeep Wrangler with either the off-road packages or the Rubicon trim, a Toyota 4Runner or Tacoma with the TRD off-road packages, a Nissan Xterra similarly equipped, maybe a properly equipped Toyota FJ, maybe an off-road trimmed and modified Jeep Grand Cherokee, and a smattering of lesser-trimmed but aftermarket-modified vehicles. Off-road use and "expert off road experience" means 4WD/AWD plus low range transfer case, limited slip or locking differentials, suspension modification/lift kit,skid plates, tow hooks, and maybe even more specialized recovery gear...for starters. You can get by with less but you have to make up for equipment shortfalls with experience. You didn't state your own level of competency with off-road driving. If it's none...start with a Wrangler Rubicon and go from there. Even with a novice behind the wheel, simple application of common sense and knowledge of your own limitations makes those pretty hard to get irretrievably stuck unless you work at it. Bonus points for the Jeep, I'm pretty sure Jeep still does their Jamborees, which is a good way to have someone teach you how to properly manipulate your vehicle's features and capabilities.

The Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon and Ford Expedition can work in this capacity as well, but if we're talking Serious Off Road Use you're talking Serious Off Road Modification, at a higher price point, on a high end SUV that already costs (IMHO) too much money. Frankly, the same with the Toyota Sequoia. The bigger it gets, the more mass you're throwing around, the less agility you have, the more grunt you need to get out of/around obstacles, the greater a chance of you breaking something by being too aggressive on power, the fewer places it can fit, et cetera, et cetera.

Probably best bet is to get some people who are real familiar with the Lake Tahoe area on this thread to weigh in. I have no idea what trails of which you speak; you may be entirely able to get up them with stock equipment of a less-than-optimal nature for trail driving, but your post leads me to believe otherwise.

Main thing to know is=====> AWD does not equal 4WD. AWD is not intended for off road use for anything other than very brief and very minor.

I just did some brief curiosity searching. Used Jeeps and Toyota Tacomas/4-Runners are going to have around 100k miles and be 6-10 years old to be around $20k.

You'd be better off financially buying a used one with the off-road mods (or factory off road packages-Rubicon, TRD etc.) already on it as opposed to getting a base model and adding aftermarket items at retail.

There's a host of specialty ORV of various configurations and costs, specially designed to go off road. Most of them are not highway legal.

Stepping into the 21st century for the upper end of your budget, there's a host of road legal vehicles already named in prior posts.

The question is whether you want to tow your ORV out to the fun places, or drive one to that spot before using IT to go off road.

There's a lot of difference between a $5000 & a $15000 ORV not intended for highway use.

There's no so much difference between a used road-legal 4x4 in the same price range.

Probably lowest cost of the bunch, is a used dirt bike from the 70s or 80s. With a trailer to tow it, shopping around will find considerable variation in asking price.

Thanks. Yea, I don't really have any knowledge or experience for these types of vehicles. And I'm not even sure what the trails / roads are like since I can't get them currently So, my initial post may not make much sense and may not be using correct terminology.

For my intended use, if an AWD car like Subaru is sufficient, that might be perfect. Other than AWD, I'm not sure what the practical difference is between my car (GS300) and a Subaru is. I was thinking more ground clearance is a must (not sure how much is advised) and wider, deeper grooved tires (so as not to sink much and also maintain traction in soft sand/dirt, mud, snow.

So far:
1) Subaru
2) Land Cruiser / LX
3) Jeep Rubicon
4) Toyota FJ
5) Toyota 4Runner / Tacoma with TRD

I need to look-up: lift kit, low range transfer case, locking differential, skid plates.

ETA: I just found this like which seems to describe some of the dirt roads around Mono Lake. http://www.t-r-j.com/MonoLake/index.htm

I've been to most of those areas of your trip using a Chevy Silverado, yes a full-size pick-up. Most of those roads that are of interest are bull dozer trails, fire roads, and mining roads where pick-ups and heavier are going down. The only modifications would be slightly taller and more aggressive tires, and adding some additional skid-plates. Areas marked 'off-road experience needed' are usually areas that have experienced water erosion, sand and/or combination that's left loose boulders. Downhill speed is also a deceptive issue, the road out of Bodie down to Mono Lake is an issue and warning signs are all over the place to check your speed.

Every couple of years, friends and I head up to the mountains surrounding Death Valley and set-up an off-road camp. We're driving everything from full-size pick-ups, CJ's, 4Runner's and Land Cruisers. Checking out the Race Track Playa, abandon mines and deep gorge canyons is good fun. I currently have a Tundra, my next vehicle will be a 4Runner, make sure it has the KDSS suspension kit. Shorter wheelbase provides easier maneuverability, not as heavy, not as wide so I can go through most of the drive-thru canyons with no issues, and lots of aftermarket options available.

Lots of rigs will fit the bill. I am a pickup guy myself. But if being a people hauler is part of the use a suv makes sense. At >$20k you have ton's of options. I like a stick for real offroad 4wd situations. Be careful not to get such a nice rig you are afraid to use it.
I have never liked the idea of off road recreational use. My real 4wd use is either work or getting some place. But to each their own.

Good info.

So:
1) I want 4WD, not AWD (but what about Subaru? Is that no longer indicated for this type of use?)

2) Buy used with whatever package / features I need (which I still need to learn / figure out). Don't buy used and then add-on features.

3) I think I want a street legal vehicle that I can use for this purpose. Dirt bike is an interesting suggestion. That's something I could probably do (although haven't ridden a motorcycle / dirt bike for 30+ years, I could get back in the saddle again). The problem is my wife. So, if I go w/ my wife, probably need a 4WD vehicle. But something to consider for solo trips (but would still need something to tow the bike).

So, seems like if I'm partial to Toyota, a 4Runner is starting point? (over the Tacoma truck - I think I prefer the covered back).

90s Cherokee XJs are an under-appreciated truck. Stock form they would do most of what you want. Building them isn't terrible, if you end up wanting more.

Land cruiser, can fit all your gear and they are built like tanks

1998-2000 3rd gen 4Runner, Slushbox only in 2001 and 2002.

Land Cruiser - 1993 – 1999 may have lockers; 1998-99 will be rear locker only and V8 - these were $50k vehicle so maintenance will be $$ too

2003-2006 Wrangler Rubicon, the Unlimited is a little longer than standard.

Jeep Rubicon, especially if your not looking for it to be your daily driver, thought it does make a good daily driver. since your not a truck/suv/4wd guy. me, I have twice and will again drive a jeep wrangler for a daily driver any day. I have a nice 4wd crew cab but I still earn for my Jeep. at some point I see myself selling the truck and getting back into a Jeep.

if your not trying to haul a large family around off road with a metric ton of gear, then a Jeep.

if you considered just a "dirt bike" but want it with 4 wheels and street legal, then a Jeep.

4WD, then a Jeep.

and despite what other will say, trust me I love a manual shift, go with an automatic. off roading is far more enjoyable, especially as a newbie, with an auto. you wont worry about rolling backyards, loosing forward momentum in sand or mud, less to keep on your mind and popping the clutch killing the motor at the most critical moments.

a nicely used SUV, 4WD, can conquer anything in its path off road (and on road) and be street legal that someone has already installed all the doo dads and off road goodies you would like to have.....then a Jeep.

I guess what I am suggesting is a Jeep.

now if I had a family of 4 or more, dogs, cats, camping gear, coolers, canoes, kayaks and such a SUV would be the way to go. me I would go for the Lexus/Toyota Land Cruiser option. but then again since 2007 Jeep has made a 4 door Wrangler in all configurations. me I love the 2 door. but wanting some more room for the family at times the 4 door is nice.

for true off roading its very hard to beat a Jeep. good luck and I hope you find what your looking for and have many enjoyable off road adventures. that shit is fun as hell.

Echo what Decker said. The true limitation of a short Rubicon is cargo space, especially if you have a family to lug around. A 4-door Rubi is much better in this regard but as with other vehicles listed here, have poor break-over angle. However any Rubi still have that crazy low crawl ratio (good), front and read diff lockers, good approach and departure angles, front sway bar disconnect.

I suspect though, as others had said, that any competent 4x4 with low range xfer case would suit you nicely.

If you're just looking for an pure off-road rig for hitting up the Sierras, East Side and beyond, Jeep Cherokee or, Sahara and Toyota Land Cruisers FJ80 are the way to go.

However, if this rig is gonna do everyday/normal drive use while occasional off-road use, I'd consider a Toyota 4Runner Trail Model. Nice interior, not luxury but, functional drivetrain for all-purpose use and the wife will be comfortable. The new Land Cruisers are more luxurious and better suited for family trips, not off-road adventures despite having the necessary drivetrain. Post trip clean-up with those would take two weekends.

Mike (former SF based in NorCal) over at FieldCraft Survival has multi-part podcast that covers off-road vehicles, a few mods you can make; take a listen. Here's his page, check out Episode-15
https://itunes.apple.com/us/po...i=1000381463290&mt=2

More good info - thanks!

Jeep does sound good but I have no experience with them. But sounds capable, trustworthy and reliable. I'll add the Rubicon to the list.

Good clarification / assumptions above so I should be more explicit.

This trip, we filled the trunk with gear (70's during the day while hiking, 30's at night (still snow on the ground). So, we had both warm and cold weather clothes, swim wear, bike clothes, cooler (to keep a lunch), hiking boots, wet shoes, sneakers -- the trunk was all the way full.

So, the vehicle will likely be for the intended use and possibly for some occasional daily use. But it still needs considerable cargo space. It will also be used to carry mtn bikes and/or kayaks (2 each).

Sounds like Rubicon may not be accommodating for this but we'll see if there is a trim that will work.

So, it's trending toward:
1) 4WD
2) low crawl ratio (have to look this up)
3) good break over angle, front and rear (have to look this up); good approach / departure angles
4) good ground clearance (how much?); lift kit?
5) skid plates
6) front / rear differential locks
7) tall, aggressive tires

Land Cruiser sounds nice but it's probably out of my budget. So, 4Runner still sounds like the recommended overall candidate? Or the Toyota FJ (not sure what that is).

See if you can find a local Jeep club. Most of them take regular rides, and I'm sure you could find someone to tag along with.

Those guys will have everything from mostly stock vehicles to really high end rigs, and you can poke around and ask questions and ride along and get a feel for what they are capable of. Then when you buy something you will have people to get out with that can keep you from getting into trouble until you learn your capabilities.

The rougher the roads are, the more rugged you need a vehicle to be, and its hard for me to say what you need without seeing the terrain. I don't know what your timeline is, but like ScorpionBoy said, a Jeep Cherokee is a great starter vehicle. You can probably pick up a nice one for 3k, and even stock they will go damn near anywhere most people want to go. If you decide you would rather have something else, you can pretty well resell it for the same 3k and get what you want and you aren't out anything.

The most important thing you really need is good tow points and recovery straps, so if you do get stuck someone can pull you out without tearing anything up. We were way back in a park one time, and found a brand new Cherokee stuck somewhere he shouldn't have been. He had bought it new and driven it straight to the park. Four hours later, he was still there because he had no tow points for anyone to hook to and he was buried. The people that finally got him out ripped off one of his front wheels doing it, but it was the only thing they could get a grip on.

quote:

I'll add the Rubicon to the list.

Just my opinion, but these are over priced because the are 'built' from the factory. the average person will not be using those lockers very often. And when you do need one, you will have to switch to low range and engage it, putting you in super duper slow crawl mode. Otherwise, you are running with an open diff.

I would recommend a TJ unlimited with a LSD. They all came with D44 rears and often have the traction aids. I think they are the best Jeep ever made, especially if you want to build it a bit later. Sounds like you wouldn't need to do anything to one to achieve your goals.

Not sure what vehicle you drive but if it can tow, you might consider a Polaris Razr on a small trailer. Tons of fun and goes anywhere.