I'm a Jeep and Ford truck guy so let me get that out of the way....

Depending on how many people you will have and how much junk you're planning on hauling you can get anything from a Subaru (Very good and dependable) to a Toyota 4 Runner ( Very good also but they are expensive used). A jeep Wrangler, Cherokee or Grand Cherokee ( very good off-road but may have dependability issues) to a Chevy Tahoe or a F Series pick up.

All will get you where you want to go and there are tons of aftermarket support for most of these. It's a slippery slope but it can be lots of fun. For Us we have a Grand Cherokee and a F-350 with a Hallmark Expedition pop up camper on it and have been taking it well off the beaten path.

My wife and I are on our second Rubicon in the last 12 years. Personally I love it for its capabilities. We could get by with a Four Runner or FJ but the Jeep is great for certain situations.

I ended up in a Jeep after taking my Pilot places that were just too rough for it. We did take it on a vacation in Eastern Utah and did some roads that impressed me with its ability. You can make a lot of the choices work with good tires and a little experience!

Look for a 2005 long wheelbase Rubicon, you'll appreciate the extra length.

It helps and is really necessary to be a "wrench monkey".

I you are old and/or do not like and/or understand mechanical things/issue's.
You are going to not like all the headaches and expense's this little hobby will require.

Just say'in.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
More good info - thanks!

Jeep does sound good but I have no experience with them. But sounds capable, trustworthy and reliable. I'll add the Rubicon to the list.

Good clarification / assumptions above so I should be more explicit.

This trip, we filled the trunk with gear (70's during the day while hiking, 30's at night (still snow on the ground). So, we had both warm and cold weather clothes, swim wear, bike clothes, cooler (to keep a lunch), hiking boots, wet shoes, sneakers -- the trunk was all the way full.

So, the vehicle will likely be for the intended use and possibly for some occasional daily use. But it still needs considerable cargo space. It will also be used to carry mtn bikes and/or kayaks (2 each).

Sounds like Rubicon may not be accommodating for this but we'll see if there is a trim that will work.

So, it's trending toward:
1) 4WD
2) low crawl ratio (have to look this up)
3) good break over angle, front and rear (have to look this up); good approach / departure angles
4) good ground clearance (how much?); lift kit?
5) skid plates
6) front / rear differential locks
7) tall, aggressive tires

Land Cruiser sounds nice but it's probably out of my budget. So, 4Runner still sounds like the recommended overall candidate? Or the Toyota FJ (not sure what that is).

It really still does sound like your talking about a Jeep Wrangler. It truly meets exactly all the wish list items you have here. Except for "tall" tires, though they do come with a 32-33", that list above is what every Jeep Wrangler comes with from the factory.

On the older side. Don't really have much mechanical inclinations. I could probably manage some things if I had the right parts and tools. But I usually don't have the right tools and I'm definitely not a wrench monkey. So, reliability and durability is going to be a key attribute. I need to be able to trust that the vehicle is going to get me back home (or at least to where people are).


Jeep Wrangler, keep in mind that this off road stuff and Jeeps are completely new to me, what would be the high level pros/cons of Wrangler vs 4Runner (FJ?) on the critical attributes? I know the Jeep brand but have no experience with them at all. I've only had Toyota / Nissan sedans and assuming that the sedan experience carries into their SUV/truck line as well.

In general, I don't like too tall Jeeps, anything over a 3.5" lift. Reason is stability. You can flip it much easier on side hills, deeply rutted uneven trails and steep climbs. I am sure others will disagree but that's been my experience.

About the diff lockers and Rubi's low range - I often engaged both lockers before heading into a tough obstacle. It's a better technique for me as you can prevent further erosion of the trail by wheel spins and prevent sliding sideways into deeper ruts by excessive wheel spin. The air lockers may not get engaged immediately when you switch it on due to teeth misalignment so then you're in a tough spot, more wheel spin (also when you engage lockers and they don't lock immediately, you might have more wheels spin and then sudden locking, creating unnecessary high stress/load on your axle shafts). Even with tight turns in a climb, I'd still engage the front locker, which does limit your turning ability but you can unlock easier than locking once you had already committed to the obstacle. Lock 'em up and pick your line thru it.

As for the low range of the Rubi, alot of times I started off in a moderate obstacle in 2nd or even 3rd gear in low. You can engage the lockers then because the xfer case is in low, but with 2nd or 3rd gear, you're still moving at a good clip on the trail.

I'm a Jeep fan with only a daily driver JK (2 door) for all my personal errands, rural chores, and off road activities. Without mud/rock fantasies to engage my efforts, the Jeep seems quite sturdy enough to meet my general transportation needs.

Perhaps because I'm so antique the Enola Gay actually was taxiing down the landing strip as I was nearing birth, my use of Jeep is rather conservative. I have the benefits of learning from the excesses of a very rugged period in my youth running around trying to beat up my machinery, and do little to overly stress it these days.

I have virtually no mechanical issues that 'stop forward motion' towards my immediate goal of the day.

Perhaps a visit to enthusiast website such as wranglerforum.com could give you a broader view of your Jeep inquiries.

youtube has three hours of "expert " off roaders getting unstuck.

there used to be a half dozen places to rent off road vehicles around Mono.

I'd say that you can cover most of the trails in one season.

I'd suggest renting at least twice.

before you go to purchasing 20 g vehicles

Following up my post, I'm 73 and wife is mid-sixties. In April we took a couple of days to get out. We put about 60 miles on backroads, didn't see another vehicle. My wife sees signs like this and she says "Let's go!

I have my Wrangler serviced by the mechanic that built it, he goes over the suspension every 3K miles, so far no problems. I've got 33,000 miles on my 2014 and I don't use it except on weekends.

I have had both 4x4 pickups and suv's I would get a SUV if I were you. The light rear end of a pickup compromises traction. I could go places with my Ford Bronco in 2 wheel drive were my buddy had to use 4 wheel drive in his pickup with the same tires. Or you could put a bunch of bricks in the pickup bed to give more rear end weight.

I suggest you link up with someone with a stock 4x4 and just go for a ride and see what it's capabilities are. If fire roads and dozer trails are the only thing you are looking at a stock vehicle will probably suffice.

For several years I did maintenance and recovery for CBP vehicles operating on the border in the Big Bend area. I was impressed with how far a stock Tahoe with only taller tires could get over rocks and washes before it punctured the oil pan or broke something significant.

I bought a 97 Cherokee XJ 2 years ago for some off road exploring and $18k later the list of improvements has slowed at best. Although it's still street legal towing is becoming the better option, Tim Taylor would be proud. Once you start changing gearing, adding lockers, etc. it starts getting addictive and expensive.

All good information.

Another place to look is expeditionportal.com Read some of the trip reports ( you can find them by region) and see what the authors are driving. Might give some basis for comparison of capabilities.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by konata88:
On the older side. Don't really have much mechanical inclinations. I could probably manage some things if I had the right parts and tools. But I usually don't have the right tools and I'm definitely not a wrench monkey. So, reliability and durability is going to be a key attribute. I need to be able to trust that the vehicle is going to get me back home (or at least to where people are).

Nothing wrong with being on the older side

But having a reliable rig to start with in good. But this hobby is an ongoing repair it, patch it, replace it. Over and over again if you are truly off road regularly. I am not try to discourage you. But be warned it is an expensive hobby, especially if you are paying someone to do all the work.

if this isn't going to be your daily driver and just used for off road i would look for something used and already tweaked out and i wouldn't worry about the looks of it the mechanics is what you want to be solid i have seen some rough looking rigs go thru anything just have a mechanic check it out

2007 Toyota Land Cruiser or Lexus LX470!
That is all!
Go to www.ih8mud.com
Read up and check the classifieds for one already built.

quote:

Originally posted by stiab:
Main thing to know is=====> AWD does not equal 4WD. AWD is not intended for off road use for anything other than very brief and very minor.

uh huh.

is that an Urquott?

If you can tow it, this sounds like a perfect reason to own a UTV. Reasonable vehicle you use 12 months a year and a dedicated wheeler too. I saw mountains of the things as we went through Moab last month. Made me think there must be a damn good reason.

My co-worker is quite into off roading. Owns a tube chassis military axled Rock crawler. He won't be without his UTV.

Check out a 4 runner for some versatility.
Here is a great video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvLW7peKges&sns=em

Of them in action.

A used 4runner is what I'd choose.

Mine has been amazingly capable, flexible, and reliable, with nearly 300,000 miles on it.