quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:
Perhaps the US should send military in and take over Venezuela. Then keep the oil. The US and Venezuela would both be far better off. Too simplistic, I know.

Taking over another country wouldn’t be terribly well received on the world stage, nor does it align with our self-image as a country. Beyond that, taking and holding a country as an invading force briefly is one thing, holding a country over time is a whole ‘nother.

Nation building, or “bringing democracy to another country” generally seems to be a lot tougher than is generally thought going into the exercise. An approach more likely (but absolutely NOT guaranteed to be successful) would be waiting until a movement toward democracy arises (maybe with a little coaching/encouragement, but not pulling too many levers), hopefully organically, or at least looking that way, then supporting that movement.

Democracy works well when the people are ready for it. Trying to impose democracy on a people made up of several warring tribes that have been at war for tens of generations is unlikely to have a positive outcome no matter how much time, treasure, blood, sweat, and tears we put into it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Socialism is a means to power, not a means to prosperity.

I might suggest socialism is a means to prosperity, for those in power.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by Abn556:...The sad thing is that US Progressives won't learn a thing from the collapse of Venezuela. They'll continue to support the same kind of radical policies that will lead us to a similar end, should we elect them.

Not only will they not learn from the collapse of Venezuela, they will reject the reason for collapse.

Needs a repeat.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Socialism is a means to power, not a means to prosperity.

I might suggest socialism is a means to prosperity, for those in power.

You are both right!

Ah, but sooner or later the golden goose must die. It's all too common for the death to take generations. An economy might limp along under the inevitable mismanagement that is part and parcel of socialism for decades. But no economy man has yet seen is capable of bearing the burden of supporting both an economy and a totalitarian ideology. Eventually every Marxist government must fall apart due to the contradictions created by the mutually exclusive demands of the market and the Party.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:
Perhaps the US should send military in and take over Venezuela. Then keep the oil. The US and Venezuela would both be far better off. Too simplistic, I know.

I hope you are kidding.

^^^ Sure hope so.

We don't need the oil, and we need the headache of assuming responsibility for cleaning up this mess even less.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:
Perhaps the US should send military in and take over Venezuela. Then keep the oil. The US and Venezuela would both be far better off. Too simplistic, I know.

I hope you are kidding.

I am. Thoroughly tongue in cheek, minus the winking emoticon. I suppose there's a little venting involved, too, due to my complete disgust over the Venezuela situation. I also feel a lot of disgust at the younger generation in our own country and their apparent acceptance of socialism. It's stunning to me how we could have ever gotten to this point.

quote:

I also feel a lot of disgust at the younger generation in our own country and their apparent acceptance of socialism. It's stunning to me how we could have ever gotten to this point.

Same here.
The "Bernie Bros" think socialism is cool:

The Success of Socialism: In Venezuela, Even the Soldiers Are Starving

From the Associated Press:

Empty stomachs drive Venezuela soldiers to desert in droves

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) — He enlisted in Venezuela’s National Guard to earn a ticket out of poverty. But little more than two years later, his monthly pay is worth only about $2, forcing him to moonlight at a tire shop, and he has put in for a discharge.

“I don’t know what everybody else does to survive,” said Ruben, a 21-year-old sergeant, who fearing retaliation agreed to speak about his situation only if his last name was not revealed. “If I don’t get out of this, I’ll starve to death.”

Not even Venezuela’s once-proud military is immune to the oil-rich country’s deepening economic crisis of food shortages and skyrocketing prices, and while top commanders deny there is any discontent, analysts say thousands of soldiers are asking for honorable discharges or deserting their posts by simply walking away.

Since taking office after the death of Hugo Chavez, his mentor who installed Venezuela’s socialist administration, President Nicolas Maduro has sought to lock in support from the armed forces by pampering troops with outsized bonuses and awarding loyal officers with top government posts.

There’s much more at the original.

We have previously noted that in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, another socialist nation in which the military are the favored group, even North Korean soldiers have been found heavily infected with parasites, while other news sources have reported the chronic undernourishment North Korean soldiers suffer.

And now we see that the military in Venezuela, on which President Maduro is counting to retain power, are also going hungry. Children in the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela are dying from malnutrition, as the economy of the nation with the world’s largest petroleum reserves has fallen into shambles — the economy is expected to contract by double digits for the third straight year in 2018 — and even the all-important oil industry is collapsing, and now we learn that even the soldiers are going underfed.

This is what socialism wreaks upon an economy and a society. This is what the socialists and the ‘Bernie bros‘ want to bring to the United States! Oh, that’s not what they think, of course: to the socialists, their policies will make everybody well-to-do in the Western sense. They’ll all live in upscale urban apartments and have their Starbucks every morning, on the way to their six-hour-a-day well-paying professional jobs, with their beautiful secretaries there, smiling, everyday.

The equality promised by socialists has turned into equal poverty; only a small minority live better than squalor, and that small minority is, of course, the people with guns.

The truth of socialism, as revealed by its history, is that the Bernie bros and their ilk wouldn’t have those upscale urban apartments, but would be sent out in the fields, because that’s where the food is grown, and they’d be needed to work the crops. If, of course, there actually are enough crops to feed everyone, and they don’t have to start eating their pets, while soldiers steal goats for food. Venezuelan farmers could produce more food, but the insane economic controls under ‘Bolivarian socialism’ has crippled farmers’ ability to produce more food.

Socialism means poverty, and socialism means totalitarian control. Nowhere has it been tried with any different results. The República Bolivariana is simply the latest to fail once socialism has been imposed by force tried, but it won’t be the last.

https://www.redstate.com/diary...n-soldiers-starving/
.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:
Perhaps the US should send military in and take over Venezuela. Then keep the oil. The US and Venezuela would both be far better off. Too simplistic, I know.

I hope you are kidding.

I am. Thoroughly tongue in cheek, minus the winking emoticon. I suppose there's a little venting involved, too, due to my complete disgust over the Venezuela situation. I also feel a lot of disgust at the younger generation in our own country and their apparent acceptance of socialism. It's stunning to me how we could have ever gotten to this point.

We are at this point because Leftists don't learn anything not superimposed with Leftism. Watching them 'learn' is tedious.

BBC
IMF predicts Venezuela’s inflation rate expected to reach 1,000,000% this year:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45246409

Working just like socialism is supposed to work. As long as the looters attack private enterprises they'll be fine, it'll change if the looters get after any gov't officials.

They haven't gotten to the part where the "authorities" round up the looters/accused looters, kill them, and dump 'em in a mass grave....yet.

This is a preview of what parts of the USA will look like if the gov't stops funding those EBT cards.

quote:

This is a preview of what parts of the USA will look like if the gov't stops funding those EBT cards.

I can't wait!

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

This is a preview of what parts of the USA will look like if the gov't stops funding those EBT cards.

I can't wait!

Keep working, millions on welfare depend on you.

“MARACAIBO, Venezuela (AP) — In a city once called the Saudi Arabia of Venezuela for its vast oil wealth, residents of Maracaibo now line up to buy spoiled meat as refrigerators fail amid nine months of rolling power outages that recently got worse.

Some people fall ill eating the rotten beef, but at bargain prices, it’s the only way they can afford protein as the country’s crisis hits bottom.

“It smells a little foul, but you rinse it with a little vinegar and lemon,” said Yeudis Luna, a father of three young boys buying darkened cuts at a butcher shop in Venezuela’s second largest city…”

https://apnews.com/038d186812944352b7f98d68f341a4d8

Is there anything left to loot in Venezuela?

quote:

“It smells a little foul, but you rinse it with a little vinegar and lemon,” said Yeudis Luna, a father of three young boys buying darkened cuts at a butcher shop in Venezuela’s second largest city…”

GROSS!
So.... you have a choice... starvation or get sick from the food?

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

This is a preview of what parts of the USA will look like if the gov't stops funding those EBT cards.

I can't wait!

I know I’m ready if it should come to extreme urban unrest and ATTEMPTED looting at my house...
A few rotting corpses at the top of the driveway should be enough of an indication that they’re in the wrong neighborhood.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

This is a preview of what parts of the USA will look like if the gov't stops funding those EBT cards.

I can't wait!

I know I’m ready if it should come to extreme urban unrest and ATTEMPTED looting at my house...
A few rotting corpses at the top of the driveway should be enough of an indication that they’re in the wrong neighborhood.

A “Now Hiring” sign will deter most of them.

If I were running one of the big oil companies, especially one out of the US, I might be tempted to covertly take over the country and it's oil reserves.

I'd find some ex-government spooks to go into the country to gather intel and lay the groundwork. They could find an ambitious and maybe not to bright army general to be the face of a coup. The hire a solid group of mercs to go in, take out Maduro, tie up and neutralize what's left of their military (hopefully the general selected could turn some of the military in favor of the coup.) Once the friendly general takes over, he'd turn the country's oil industry over to the company that bankrolled the coup. They'd kick back just enough oil revenue to the government to maintain stability.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:
Perhaps the US should send military in and take over Venezuela. Then keep the oil. The US and Venezuela would both be far better off. Too simplistic, I know.