There is a trend building up here.

Risk of being caught violating NJ law and suffering the consequences >> needing gun to defend yourself (and violating NJ law).

I think members here have made their advice clear but your choice.

I'm definitely not flying with the gun to NJ. I just wanted to know if anything had changed. But I will ship it home before heading to NJ. A friend I'm staying with in PA may be coming to visit me in Phoenix in Nov., in which case I could have him bring it with him.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

“Probably just gonna have to mail it home to myself. And I guess I need to read up on how to do that too.”

“I've shipped my guns out for work plenty of times without describing the contents as other than "machined metal parts."”

You seem to be getting defensive here, and seem to be trying to figure out how to skirt the rules, either with bringing the gun into New Jersey, or shipping it.

My advice, as others have said, is not to chance it with New Jersey. If you want to violate UPS or FedEx terms, that’s your choice.

If you are going to ship the gun, you could ship it to yourself at your parents’ house, and then take it from there. No need to ship all the way home.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
Probably just gonna have to mail it home to myself. And I guess I need to read up on how to do that too.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:
I really don't care what their rules are. I care about the law, and it's not illegal to ship by means other than USPS. It's not a transfer because I already own the gun. I understand that breaking their rules means they won't pay an insurance claim. But this is not an expensive gun and I have plenty more. I've shipped my guns out for work plenty of times without describing the contents as other than "machined metal parts."

It's clear you are quite familiar with USPS laws as well as UPS and FedEx rules re: firearms. Since you've successfully shipped your guns "plenty of times", I'm not sure what more you will need to "read up on" or what advice you may obtain from SIGforum membership.

quote:

Originally posted by honestlou:

If you are going to ship the gun, you could ship it to yourself at your parents’ house, and then take it from there. No need to ship all the way home.

Oh man, I'd be a little nervous about that. And since I wouldn't even be uncasing the gun while in NJ, as long as I have to ship it at all, I might as well ship it home to myself in AZ.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

I really don't care what their rules are. I care about the law, and it's not illegal to ship by means other than USPS. It's not a transfer because I already own the gun. I understand that breaking their rules means they won't pay an insurance claim. But this is not an expensive gun and I have plenty more. I've shipped my guns out for work plenty of times without describing the contents as other than "machined metal parts."

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/q...-or-contract-carrier

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

I’d advise you not to violate state and federal law.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

But what I'm wondering is whether authorities in NJ are at all alerted when an inbound flight has a checked firearm. I've done it a few times to/from Chicago O'Hare and Midway, even before IL lightened up, plenty times in other gun-unfriendly states. Never had an issue.

I wouldn't put it past an airport worker to take it upon themself to notify police of checked firearms. I've seen it years ago in Montana, so yeah it could happen in NJ. I don't think it would be official airline policy, but some do-gooder employee might do it. Heck, the police might make it their policy to be informed even without airline policy.

Another issue is the unexpected. Your bag gets lost, or it gets heavily damaged. Now you've got people asking questions, and perhaps notifying police of a missing firearm.

Were you scheduled to leave the state immediately, such as renting a car to drive to PA, you would meet the federal law of being legal at your destination so you are legal in transit through EWR airport. But since you are staying in NJ you are not FOPA protected if there is anything not NJ compliant such as magazine capacity, threaded barrel, hollowpoint ammo, etc.

Whether your gun and associated items are legal or not in NJ, idk. If clearly legal in every way, you could take the chance of an unpleasant LEO encounter. The problem is that being legal doesn't mean a smooth experience.

I would be well armed with printed copies of the law, have a lawyer's phone number ready to dial, be ready to politely assert yourself if you do bring in your firearm.

Just last week I flew from Denver to NJ to pick up a truck from my sister and drive it back to Denver. I thought about the gun issue, but in the end decided it was not worth the risk. Drove 1,800 miles across the country and didn't have a need for the gun.

Flying into Philly was possible, but way out of the way for my sister to pick me up. My sister lives 35 minutes from Newark, but 2 hours from Philly.

KEEP YOUR GUN HOME!

I'd fly to Turks and Caicos with live ammo falling out of my pockets before getting within spitting distance of NJ with a firearm.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee:

I really don't care what their rules are. I care about the law, and it's not illegal to ship by means other than USPS. It's not a transfer because I already own the gun. I understand that breaking their rules means they won't pay an insurance claim. But this is not an expensive gun and I have plenty more. I've shipped my guns out for work plenty of times without describing the contents as other than "machined metal parts."

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/q...-or-contract-carrier

In addition, federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm or ammunition, prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm and requires obtaining written acknowledgement of receipt. [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a)(5), 922(e) and (f); 27 CFR 478.30 and 478.31]

I’d advise you not to violate state and federal law.

ATF left out this part:

(e)It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

I will just ship to my local FFL and then I don't have to notify.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
Since you’re asking, there’s another element to think about. Yeah I know about being judged by 12 over carried by 6.

Remember Micheal Penny, subway Good Samaritan. When in a restrictive State or area, what happens should you ever use or ‘brandish’ that handgun?

I just throw up the thought of using other mitigation techniques to lower the likelihood of the unpleasant interaction. Those techniques can vary depending of particulars, though they start with time of day & location.

OK, tell me I need to take testosterone supplements.

I don’t know whether you need testosterone supplements or not, but using mitigation to avoid unpleasant situations sound like common sense to me. I’d guess that most start there when carrying. The mindset isn’t, “I’m packing let’s go look for some trouble.” It’s “I don’t want to deal with the paperwork, stress, legal issues, etc that are bound to crop up if I use the tool, so let’s do everything I can to make sure I don’t need it.”

^^^

only took 11 years

that was fast

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
^^^

only took 11 years

that was fast

The article was from 2015

I was just pointing out that bad things happen to people when you cross a bridge from PA into NJ

quote:

Originally posted by Chowser:
I'd just avoid NJ if at all possible. You never know what kind of cop you'd run into.

The plan was to fly into JFK with my gun in checked luggage. Collect my luggage and uber into NJ, buy the car and drive it back. Even carrying under LEOSA and am still active, I decided it wasn't worth the hassle or risk. Especially since my daughter would be coming with me. I ended up finding a car in PA, so we flew into Philly and bought the car. No issues with our guns. She's an Ohio permit holder.

This sums it up.. if a LEO doesn't eve want to deal with NJ LEOs and their laws.

Wasn't Christie running for POTUS then? Likely the only reason she was pardoned.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I'd fly to Turks and Caicos with live ammo falling out of my pockets before getting within spitting distance of NJ with a firearm.

Monkey for the win.

For perspective, it required a lawsuit, two years of litigation, and a Federal judge telling New Jersey "No, seriously. LEOSA really does apply to New Jersey" before there was any confidence that they wouldn't charge retired cops for doing it.

How do you think the peasantry would fare?

I think NJ was just forced to recognize all of LEOSA.

With that, it's sketchy. Without that, I wouldn't carry anywhere close to that place.

Jersey is Ok IF you have a current LEOSA accompanied by your dept. ID. They don’t allow hollow points or mags greater than 10 rnds.

The rounds with the synthetic inserts are not considered hollow points.

The Police recently successfully sued the State to allow their own off duty officers to carry within the same parameters as LEOSA. Prior to that, off duty cops were not allowed to have mags above 10 rnds or hollow points. They’re a little less grouchy now….

That said, I’ve never flown there. Always entered by ground transport.

I’ve carried when traveling and vacationing both there and NYC. My approach has always been that no one will know I’m carrying unless I am forced to use my weapon. Baggage claim obviously removes that. You may have to answer lots of questions.