SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Alabama abortion ban: Nation’s strictest abortion bill passes; no rape, incest exceptions
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Certified All Positions |
Yeah great. Everyone who wants a Theocracy, move to Iran. They have the kind of rules you all want, just get used to saying "Allah." The "Democratic Socialists" can all move to North Korea, as the former Soviet Union is way to capitalist. The division of ideas is what is really stupid. If you're a conservative, you can't be for abortion or transgenders. If you're a liberal, you can't be for small government or firearms ownership. This is insanity, it's a well funded Kabuki that just keeps politicians and their handlers well fed, meanwhile the country spins its wheels. The problem is "virtue signalling," and how either side has to pander to the extremely vocal minority, "the base." Fuck it, how about doing things that keep me employed, lower my taxes, and make my healthcare less expensive? Abortion, gun control, and other "hot button" issues, matter fuck-all day to day. If this Alabama thing gets handled just right, we'll have to depend ONLY on the Democratic ability to fuck themselves that they've cultivated over the years. Snatching defeat from victory is something they are super good at. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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Member |
Yes, this law is draconian on purpose and was never meant to be deployed on the people of Alabama. The purpose is to have a law that is so illegal on the face of it that SCOTUS cannot uphold parts of it without overturning Roe. No incremental wiggle room for the courts: all or nothing. That is the gambit: now, whether it will fail or succeed is unknown. | |||
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Dances with Wiener Dogs |
IMO, no. If I don't want to own a gun, it harms no one. Ending the life of an unborn ends a life. Completely different arguments. IF you believe the unborn are alive. That, in the end, is the argument we need to have. I tend to default to the "they deserve the benefit of the doubt" argument. I, nor anyone else, has the right to deprive someone of the right to life, liberty, or anything else absent due process. Abortion is in the end (in my view) depriving another of life absent due process. _______________________ “The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” Ayn Rand “If we relinquish our rights because of fear, what is it exactly, then, we are fighting for?” Sen. Rand Paul | |||
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Member |
A question. And this is not sarcasm on my part, but a question to hopefully illicit a dialog. If you came upon a person (a parent) beating the hell out of a young kid, would you simply find minding your own business and walking away to be the appropriate/moral course of action? I'm not very religious and haven't until recently expressed much of an opinion at all on abortion, because I feel on some level its both necessary and appropriate. I also tend to follow a live and let live approach to life in general. That said, having a son I spent 20+ years raising, I have a major problem with the concept of terminating a viable pregnancy at some arbitrary point without a very 'good' reason. Once a baby becomes a human being (we can debate that point but it certainly occurs before the third trimester of a pregnancy) its no longer about a women's rights issue given an additional human being which also has rights and deserves protections is involved. And in response to the question I asked earlier, some twenty years ago I grabbed a woman by the arm who was viciously beating her little boy with a wire coat hanger in a JCPenny store, and was almost arrested for my trouble. Given the same scenario today, I'd risk arrest and choose to intervene again. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Certified All Positions |
You're wrong, mind your own damn business. Precisely my point, is that you have the luxury to worry about somebody else's abortion. Why don't we worry about whether they're gay or not and with who while we're at it. If you don't want to murder your unborn, fantastic. If you want to own a gun, fantastic. So on and so forth. You do what you want, the rest of us do what we want, as long as we're all not harming eachother, it's called getting along. If you're worried about my abortion, gun collection, religion, whose dick I do or do not suck, etc.. you're part of the problem and should mind your own damn business. "Think of the children" is a bullshit moral grandstand that the Left enjoys using too. Everyone look after their own damn kids. If that includes murdering the unborn, fine, we didn't need your contribution to the gene pool anyway. Everyone who is "pro life" can have a moral superiority merit badge. Look for it in the mail. Everyone who supports disarming civilians can have one too, you guys are just pillars of virtue, the whole lot. Good work everyone, you've solved violence..... Or not. The amount of energy, time and money spent trying to ban abortion and firearms, has lined the pockets of a lot of politicians, lobbyists, advertisers, and more. And for what exactly? The Feels? Abortion is part of human history, and will always be. It should remain safe, legal, and regulated. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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Member |
I could be way wrong here, but I imagine there are a lot of people who believe killing a baby exemplifies one harming another. God bless America. | |||
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Ammoholic |
Guns ≠ Abortion and it's not a fair comparison at all. Gun regulation and abortion regulation differ in one big way. There are 350,000,000 guns or so in the United States. Very, very, very few of the owners of those guns will ever kill someone, and most all will serve good purposes. Compare that to abortions with which there is a 100% mortality rate among users. I personally detest abortion and would not want it for anyone I cared about except under life/death situation, rape, and incest. The fact that it is used as birth control infuriates me. I believe that conception is the point a new set of DNA is made and from that point on without killing the fetus it will grow to be a baby. This may sound like a bible thumper's argument, but I assure I am not in one bit religious. I am talking medical facts and common sense. All that being said I am not pro-life as I believe that safe legal abortion should exist, say maybe to 8-10 weeks or a few weeks before whatever the current medical consensus of when a fetus is viable outside the womb. I want this because I know there are cases where children get pregnant by being stupid horny teenagers and I don't want their lives ruined. I also want it because we simply don't have the capacity to handle the glut of unwanted children we'd end up with if tomorrow abortion was illegal, nor do I want to think about children living with parents that resent them and don't provide proper care because they were forced to care for a child they didn't want and loath them for taking away their freedom. Lastly I am a libertarian to some extent and I don't give a shit what you do as long as you don't fuck with my ability to do what the heck I want. I fully agree that I much rather have more freedoms and deal with the consequences of idiots not using their freedom properly than have restrictions for the good of the people. Personal responsibility and small government are paramount to me. I will close with the fact that my mother was adopted, and I was born when she was fifteen years old. I am really glad her mom chose adoption and mine choose birth. That was twice my personhood was threatened and I was not erased from existence, so maybe I am a little biased. How easy would the decision have been for a straight A, high IQ student to get an abortion and continue on to college and have a successful life? She instead choose to drop out of high school, and have me, she sacrificed her cushy future for being a single mother, working two jobs, and always being tired. I am sure she rather of dated boys, gone to concerts, and partied it up in her teens and twenties. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Member |
So you think government has no interest in the protection of its citizens? Murder is okay with you? Obviously not. How about the father of the child, in most cases he has ZERO say. But of course its a private matter even though 1 person is making the decision for 3 people. Which part of what I typed has ANYTHING to do with religion? None. But I must be an "extremeist". It truly is amazing how abortion supporters deflect from the questions. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
Go back and read why the Supreme will never opine on the Alabama law. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
I think you are mistaken. Many states are enacting similar restrictions on abortion. The Missouri law just passed today. Eventually the Supremes will have to face the issue. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Member |
All the polls show that big majorities of the public oppose late term abortion, oppose sex selection abortion, oppose partial birth abortion and support taking measures to assist the baby if there is a live birth. But big majorities also support allowing abortion in cases of rape and incest, allowing it in all cases to protect the life of the mother, and otherwise allowing abortion in the first trimester only. The more conservative courts have sensibly allowed reasonable and common sense restrictions on abortion. In most states we were gradually getting to the point where most of the public is already at - allowing abortion only in the first trimester and in all cases of rape and incest. I wish we could just agree to go with where the majority of the public is at - and the issue would just go away. But that's not happening. | |||
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| Member |
Not quite there in Missouri. The Missouri bill was passed in the Senate. It's expected to be taken up and passed in the House tomorrow and then the Governor will have to sign it. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Nah, he's exactly right. He's not saying it's the same thing, but it's in the same league of self-righteous piety. I'm all for a correction right, I'm all for NOT paying for others abortions, but I'm not going to cast the first stone at someone who wants an abortion early on. And everyone here talks about 'the women' and responsibility to prevent unwanted pregnacies - Last time I checked, it takes a man to complete the act of conception; yet they are notoriously absent from the equation, likely because they are likely deadbeat fucks who didn't put on a rubber and want nothing to do with the potential mother / child. | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
"..., [T]hat is not a human being inside of her.” Sounds like the preamble to some monster movie trailer, doesn't it? That was said by a NYC Democrat politician in a debate with Rick Santorum when he dared say that a baby in the womb is a human being. Is that really so extreme? To think that an unborn baby is a human being? If you don't, then why is it so hard to understand why some might find abortion just as objectionable as the killing of any other person without good reason? Would you "mind your own business" if you witnessed your neighbor kill his wife through his bedroom window? Probably not. That is the point of view of an anti-abortionist. To say someone is flatly wrong for that point of view seems very short-sighted. That doesn't mean that I do or don't share that same point of view (but I'll also say that I don't believe it to be an unreasonable point of view), but it is necessary to recognize it I think if there is to be any type of debate. If like Christine Quinn one believes the unborn aren't human, then it's easier for me to understand the extreme pro-abortionist's cavalier acceptance of ending that baby's life. Because after all, he just dehumanized the fetus. I disagree with that point of view, but there it is. Where's LT Ripley when you need her? ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
Yeah but it's a mere formality at this point; it's a done deal. One of the most striking changes overnight was offered by Republicans. Under the House legislation, abortions would have been banned if a fetal heartbeat could be detected, which can occur as early as six weeks into a pregnancy. But GOP senators removed the fetal heartbeat language, replacing it with a strict eight-week ban on abortions. That language, they reasoned, may better withstand court challenges. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Certified All Positions |
Exactly. Really, unless you think I'm a moron, would I directly compare Abortion and Gun Control? No. Obviously they are different issues. The key difference being when is it OK to murder kids. In the womb or in schools?  The left has gone nuts on Abortion. The Right shouldn't follow them there, it is giving them an opportunity to seem legitimate in 2020. In case it remains unclear, I am not in favor of abortion in my own life, but I believe in personal freedom. Is murder wrong? Duhh.. But when are you allowed to do it? Well, when you made the soon-to-be-person, and they aren't done cooking. Earlier in the thread we discussed reasonable restrictions on abortion as well as other preventative measures. These things are realistic. The reason I keep comparing gun control to abortion, is the approach taken by the opposition. The level of ignorance, moral superiority, disdain, and almost any other factor, is uncanny. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Certified All Positions |
And I'm sure those were difficult decisions for the people actually involved. Still a choice that belongs to them, not to us. Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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The Joy Maker |
I got a friend, she's 23. Got her whole life ahead of her, she's special to me, because in my mind she represents every female friend I had from the age of about 14 to 28. The other day we made a promise to each other, she wouldn't get knocked up until she was at least 26, and if she did, and I had to, I'd drive her to the clinic, and pay for it to boot. Those pictures? They mean nothing. They look like little people, but they aren't. They're blank clone slugs. To the genetic donors they might mean something, that's just nature, but to me, they're nothing. They're like bacon-scented floppy disks, big emphasis on the floppy part. I don't want to have to end them, I would much prefer to have people be responsible, use condoms, use birth control, blast on them titties, whatever. But at the end of the day, if it's up to me, hand me a shovel, and I'll pancake 'em, and then dig a hole. I wont enjoy it, but it's a task that sometimes needs doing, and if it's me to do it, then so be it. Until there's experience, knowledge, substance, life isn't special. Not anymore at least. We can make more, no sweat. Unless you're down at the orphanarium, adopting the "unwanted", you're just jerking off into a ceiling fan when you bitch about the morality of abortion. 
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Military Arms Collector |
I may be the minority in this, I don't know, but in my opinion the less the government sticks its nose into our private lives the better. This is true of 2A, and it's true of abortions. For those of you who claim to be pro-2A but anti-abortion, you're just a big ole hypocrite because on one hand you demand freedom for yourself and yet on the other you willingly support the oppression of your fellow people's right of choice. If you think the government should keep its hands out of your damn gun safe, than for gods sake keep your fucking nose out of other people's business! It goes both ways you see! From an political standpoint, the GOP/conservatives has just once again shot itself in the foot. This is a very damaging move politically and gives the left a very strong platform. Sometimes I do feel that we are our own worst enemies. With that, one thing we should be able to all agree on is that the best case scenario is where an unwanted baby never existed to begin with. And THAT folks, is where the government should place its focus on. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
PeteF, consider yourself fortunate to retain posting rights in this forum. Don't you EVER AGAIN pull a stunt like that in this forum. This conversation is over. The subject of abortion is once again a prohibited subject in this forum. I should have known better. Do not start any new threads on the subject of abortion and do not shoe horn the subject into threads. Locked | |||
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Topic ClosedSIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Alabama abortion ban: Nation’s strictest abortion bill passes; no rape, incest exceptions
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