Funny thing is, there is at least 80 pieces of data tracked about you on a daily basis, the bulk of it coming all from your cell phones. I found all this out from a guy in a leadership course I was taking as he use to do targeted marketing. They could target a very specific group of people such as a doctors patients simply by putting a box around his office on a map and capturing all the cell signals coming in and out of the building. They simply bought the data from Verizon, AT&T, etc. and it was stupid cheap to do so. Bottom line, if you are using a cell phone, your privacy is compromised.

The advent of the Tim Cook era marked the beginning of Apple’s long descent.

Using words like Privacy and Security in the same sentence as Apple is laughable.
Just do a search for iBeacon. Most Apple users have never even heard of it and Apple likes it that way.
Did you opt-in for it? Can you turn it off in the settings?
This is just one example. I could list so many more.


Here is a link that explains iBeacon.

https://www.wordstream.com/blo...04/beacon-technology

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:
The advent of the Tim Cook era marked the beginning of Apple’s long descent.

I'll have to disagree with you on that one.
Much of this was in the works long before Tim Cook came onto the scene. Getting your data was the goal of these Companies right from the start. A gold rush for your data started and Blackberry was trampled in the process.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
As I stated in the other thread, Google and MSFT have been doing this for awhile now.

They have? Google and Microsoft have been installing scanning software on users' mobile devices and computers to scan them for content they deem inappropriate? Google and MS have been scanning text messages for objectionable content? You have cites for this?

A dear friend here in Argentina got in serious trouble because something related to Google’s monitoring contents.
Police went to his place looking for all his devices.
He was at work, an expert IT guy at a private bank.
A real mess that cost him all his savings to pay for a specialized lawyer. Of course, in the process, his job abd reputation got seriously damaged. Shit like this stains and smells a lot.

As it turned out. Some flagged content from a Google account, was opened from his home computer in Argentina and Google US unleashed the dogs and sent them after him.
The content belonged to his nephew, a minor, who lives in Italy and had been visiting on winter break at my friend’s apartment at the time of the event.
The minor, who’s Google account was located in Italy had accessed the pic from my friend’s computer while my friend was at work.

My friend had never been in Italy before. The objected content was in Italy, in an itslian Google account belonging to his nephew and he had no way to know about this.
Google decided it was easier to use Google Argentina to go after someone instead of using the italian police.
Almost costed him his job and reputation. Had a miserable year until things got cleared up. Spent a fortune he didn’t have in lawyers.

Eventually, an this only became clear as the police provided him more details about what they were accusing him of doing. It took time and lots of money.
Had to prove, he wasn’t at home, not his account, the account had been accessed from Italy, locally, before. And his nephew was dumb enough to use his personal named account.

My friend is an It expert, at banking security level. Worked complex banking management software since the mid nineties. No way he would be that stupid

Was a miserable year and i had to pull some strings to find out what the prosecution was doing.

Three countries involved. No brains were part of the investigation.
The family suffered a lot. My friend and his brother (the father of the minor) had tense moments. The parents of the little perv also had some serious talks. Not aware if all this made it to the italian authorities or not since only a brief access to the material happened in Argentina but the flagged stuff is/was in Italy.

I believe the whole process lasted two years before it was completely dismissed.

0-0

quote:

Originally posted by jcsabolt2:
Funny thing is, there is at least 80 pieces of data tracked about you on a daily basis, the bulk of it coming all from your cell phones.

That's just a little bit >< unlike somebody installing spyware on your phone to scan your data, don't you think?

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Just do a search for iBeacon. Most Apple users have never even heard of it and Apple likes it that way.
Did you opt-in for it? Can you turn it off in the settings?

That's just a little bit >< unlike somebody installing spyware on your phone to scan your data, don't you think?

And, btw: Did you actually read the article you cited? Google/Android's doing that, too.

quote:

Originally posted by 0-0:
As it turned out. Some flagged content from a Google account, was opened from his home computer in Argentina ...

That's just a little bit >< unlike somebody installing spyware on your phone to scan your data, don't you think?

But that story does illustrate one of the concerns about what Apple's about to do.

I'll try to bring this home to y'all in a way that might clarify just how evil a thing this is. Suppose next week Congress passes and the President-Alleged signs into law a bill re-instituting the "assault weapons" ban? Only this time Dementia Joe gets his wish and it includes a mandatory "buy-back." A year down the road the government says "We know people haven't been turning these things in. We need to find them. Apple, do your thing."

Now is the nature of the problem clear?

Btw: Earlier, sigcrazy7 asked "What's the point of switching to Android?" I can think of at least two: 1. App availability. Because of how locked-down iOS is, and the expense of developing for iOS, many apps simply are not available on iOS. 2. Because of the way Apple locks things down there is only one way to do many things: The Apple Way. E.g.: Playing music on your phone. Transferring files to/from your phone.

I was willing to put up with the restrictions and annoyances for better security and privacy. Now that those are out the window, I see no point any longer.

I'm not going to rush out and replace our iThings, but, odds are, at this point, my next mobile devices will be something other than Apple devices.

How do the laws work, where/when is the crime committed?

Say theoretically there was a place, country whatever where child porn was legal. They host a website with it... is it a crime for you to just to view it? Or does it become a crime if you save it to your computer?

Point being, forget how Apple is going about the looking, they're still viewing it! Are they saving what they find as proof? (THAT would sure be a crime) Or are they just saving the locations? (wouldn't that be like you saving links to a website?) Their intent and reason for looking for it shouldn't enter into it. You're not the FBI or Interpol or whomever, what the hell are you doing!?

Even if it's just software searching images, somewhere along the line at some point someone's doing the final checking. Are they doing this, or just forwarding it on to say the FBI, "Hey you might want to look into this." Then what can/can't the authorities do with this questionably obtained info?

All in all, as George Carlin used to say.. "Sounds like bullshit to me."

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
How do the laws work, where/when is the crime committed?

It is illegal to be in possession of those images for any reason, so if they are on your phone, you have broken the law, regardless of how they got there.

I've been on a jury where a person stole a bunch of clothes from a store. The store security witnessed them taking the clothes into a changing room and then followed them in his vehicle until the police caught up and stopped them. They had the clothes. Rather than having to prove the elements of theft, they were charged with being in possession of stolen property. Easy to prove that. Guilty as charged.

quote:

Amendment IV

(ratified December 15, 1791)

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Can anyone explain how a self-appointed vigilante (i.e. Apple) could violate the 4th Amendment prohibition against unreasonable search, and come up with evidence that could be presented in court? I don't see any restrictions making it OK to do unreasonable searches, as long as it's not the Feds doing the search.

Not defending the crimes Apple is targeting - shoot the bastards, and you'll hear not a peep out of me - but you can't just search everything, sifting for crime XYZ.

I don't know what Apple is playing at, but they will lose customers and, I believe, aid zero prosecutions by gathering inadmissable evidence.

^^^^
That prohibits the government not private parties. It's like speech and the 1st Amd. The government generally can't limit speech but a private organization can put limits on what you say/do on their property.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Just do a search for iBeacon. Most Apple users have never even heard of it and Apple likes it that way.
Did you opt-in for it? Can you turn it off in the settings?

That's just a little bit >< unlike somebody installing spyware on your phone to scan your data, don't you think?

And, btw: Did you actually read the article you cited? Google/Android's doing that, too.

I sure did read it. Puts Apple right beside Android doesn't it?


Apple has given Developers ways to bypass security features because they "TRUST" them to do the right thing.
Sounds interesting don't ya think? It wasn't US that did it. It was those sneaky developers from Instagram and TicTok that didn't do the right thing or follow our guidelines.

You would think having millions of people have their screens recorded, cameras, contacts , photos etc. accessed without their permission by a Chinese company would be a HUGE National Security risk.
Does anyone here believe our FBI and NSA are so incompetent, this could go on for months, weeks, years?


Warning—Apple Suddenly Catches TikTok Secretly Spying On Millions Of iPhone Users
https://www.forbes.com/sites/z...ers/?sh=3eca796834ef


iPhone warning: Is this app using your camera without permission?
https://www.komando.com/securi...t-permission/747400/

Instagram accused of spying users by accessing their smartphone cameras without consent
https://usaherald.com/instagra...ras-without-consent/

Many popular iPhone apps secretly record your screen without asking
https://techcrunch.com/2019/02...-replay-screenshots/


Apple has done a good job convincing people on the security of their devices. Like the much publicized MAIN STREAM MEDIA version of how they refused to unlock a terrorist's iPhone.
Reminds me of the encryption software that was promoted by news stations all over the country years back.
No telling how many of those users found out the hard way that it was written by the U.S. Government.

quote:

Can anyone explain how a self-appointed vigilante (i.e. Apple) could violate the 4th Amendment prohibition against unreasonable search, and come up with evidence that could be presented in court? I don't see any restrictions making it OK to do unreasonable searches, as long as it's not the Feds doing the search.

The Constitution protects you from the government, not others.

What Apple is doing is not much different than a mother going through her son's bedroom while he's at work, and calling the police because she found drugs.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
^^^^
That prohibits the government not private parties. It's like speech and the 1st Amd. The government generally can't limit speech but a private organization can put limits on what you say/do on their property.

Would it be OK for Ford to report me for carrying a loaded weapon in my truck when I go to WA?

My truck is my private property, no different than my home, and no different than my phone. I purchased it from another party and it is mine. Not you, not the government, not Ford, and not Apple, have the right to look inside my personal property for anything...legal or illegal.

(not trying to be argumentative with you BB61, just making a comment)

I never write my representatives as generally I feel it's pointless, but today I'll be contacting them and imploring them to act on this. If it is found to be legal, I'll be done with smart phones and will go back to the cheapest flip phone I can find.

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:

quote:

Amendment IV

(ratified December 15, 1791)

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Can anyone explain how a self-appointed vigilante (i.e. Apple) could violate the 4th Amendment prohibition against unreasonable search, and come up with evidence that could be presented in court? I don't see any restrictions making it OK to do unreasonable searches, as long as it's not the Feds doing the search.

Not defending the crimes Apple is targeting - shoot the bastards, and you'll hear not a peep out of me - but you can't just search everything, sifting for crime XYZ.

I don't know what Apple is playing at, but they will lose customers and, I believe, aid zero prosecutions by gathering inadmissable evidence.

I explained that (without having to post the Forth Amendment) a couple of pages ago.

Fruits of the poisonous tree. If they do it to police their own “private property”, ok. First time they present it to a law enforcement agency, they are an agent of the government.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
^^^^
That prohibits the government not private parties. It's like speech and the 1st Amd. The government generally can't limit speech but a private organization can put limits on what you say/do on their property.

Would it be OK for Ford to report me for carrying a loaded weapon in my truck when I go to WA?

My truck is my private property, no different than my home, and no different than my phone. I purchased it from another party and it is mine. Not you, not the government, not Ford, and not Apple, have the right to look inside my personal property for anything...legal or illegal.

(not trying to be argumentative with you BB61, just making a comment)

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Just do a search for iBeacon. Most Apple users have never even heard of it and Apple likes it that way.
Did you opt-in for it? Can you turn it off in the settings?

That's just a little bit >< unlike somebody installing spyware on your phone to scan your data, don't you think?

And, btw: Did you actually read the article you cited? Google/Android's doing that, too.

I sure did read it. Puts Apple right beside Android doesn't it?

"Right beside?" As if. IMO it makes Apple worse than Android. (At least until and unless Google does the same thing in a bid to out-evil Apple.)

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Apple has given Developers ways to bypass security features because they "TRUST" them to do the right thing.

Yes, and when Apple caught them violating the terms to which those developers agreed, they landed on them quickly.

Since then, when it Happened Yet Again that developers' words were not to be trusted, Apple implemented new stuff to force compliance. Or did you miss Facebook, Twitter, etc. throwing temper-tantrums all over the 'net about Apple's new anti-tracking/privacy enhancements?

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Apple has done a good job convincing people on the security of their devices.

More user privacy than better security. And if you were to read Apple's privacy policies they clearly are much better than those of their competitors.

All of that is beside the point. You're trying to paint Apple as having been no better than its competitors in the past. Whether they were or were not is moot at this point, so why are you polluting the thread with old news instead of focusing on the current news?

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
What Apple is doing is not much different than a mother going through her son's bedroom while he's at work, and calling the police because she found drugs.

IANAL, but I think a more accurate analogy would be a landlord searching a tenant's space for contraband, no?

Only here I bet Apple will amend their EULA/ToS, as/if necessary, forcing users to grant them permission to search their "rooms."

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
^^^^
That prohibits the government not private parties. It's like speech and the 1st Amd. The government generally can't limit speech but a private organization can put limits on what you say/do on their property.

Would it be OK for Ford to report me for carrying a loaded weapon in my truck when I go to WA?

My truck is my private property, no different than my home, and no different than my phone. I purchased it from another party and it is mine. Not you, not the government, not Ford, and not Apple, have the right to look inside my personal property for anything...legal or illegal.

(not trying to be argumentative with you BB61, just making a comment)

If you let Ford into your truck, they can report whatever they want. They go looking in your truck, specifically for guns to report to LE, it is inadmissible as evidence.

Given the recent rulings, this is pretty toxic.

I can’t send the manager in to a hotel room to search it for contraband to get around a search warrant. Same goes to what apple is doing here. While what Apple is doing seems new, the concept as it relates to search and seizure isn’t.

Makes one consider a pager and a faraday bag.

I’m honestly disgusted with how reliant I have personally become on a smartphone.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Just do a search for iBeacon. Most Apple users have never even heard of it and Apple likes it that way.
Did you opt-in for it? Can you turn it off in the settings?

That's just a little bit >< unlike somebody installing spyware on your phone to scan your data, don't you think?

And, btw: Did you actually read the article you cited? Google/Android's doing that, too.

I sure did read it. Puts Apple right beside Android doesn't it?

"Right beside?" As if. IMO it makes Apple worse than Android. (At least until and unless Google does the same thing in a bid to out-evil Apple.)

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Apple has given Developers ways to bypass security features because they "TRUST" them to do the right thing.

Yes, and when Apple caught them violating the terms to which those developers agreed, they landed on them quickly.

Since then, when it Happened Yet Again that developers' words were not to be trusted, Apple implemented new stuff to force compliance. Or did you miss Facebook, Twitter, etc. throwing temper-tantrums all over the 'net about Apple's new anti-tracking/privacy enhancements?

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
Apple has done a good job convincing people on the security of their devices.

More user privacy than better security. And if you were to read Apple's privacy policies they clearly are much better than those of their competitors.

All of that is beside the point. You're trying to paint Apple as having been no better than its competitors in the past. Whether they were or were not is moot at this point, so why are you polluting the thread with old news instead of focusing on the current news?

Since the title of the thread is "Apple to Abandon Industry-Leading Privacy and Security", I couldn't help but chuckle a little and point out a few things they have already been doing that more than rival the one that's causing you to look for other more secure devices.

As far as Facebook and Twitter throwing a temper-tantrum, I've learned not to treat this kind of M.S.M. theater as gospel.

quote:

I think a more accurate analogy would be a landlord searching a tenant's space for contraband, no?

There wouldn't be a difference between the landlord or the mother assuming that both had a legal right to be there to begin with, and summed up like this:

quote:

If you let Ford into your truck, they can report whatever they want.

I am assuming that all of the terms of service we agree to essentially gives these third parties access to whatever it is they are looking at. Since we are giving them permission, they are free to look at and report whatever they wish.