As I said, I am not going to judge based on the orig. video.
A lot of unknowns.

What is known is he will have to live with his actions. Unfortunately neither she or her unborn child will.

As the only survivor he will probably have to answer why he followed her to her home. Especially based on the final outcome. If in front of a jury. That will be tough to justify I would guess.



A horrible thing that happened.

A librarian also? Most are so quiet and helpful.

Also worth pointing out that the Biker was not the only person(s) to follow her home. Sounds like the person on the phone with 911 was an independent witness to the hit and run that also followed.

She very well could have been willing to shoot at anybody there that had followed her.

I would never chase a hit and run (or other criminal act) doing anything at a high speed or otherwise dangerous. I see nothing wrong with casually following somebody in order to lead law enforcement to them.

In fact I had an interesting hit and run that I followed a few years back. A tractor trailer merged on the highway into a 4 door sedan. The rear tandems of his trailer drove up and over the hood of the car sending the trailer crashing back to the ground as it came off. No way the driver didn't know he hit somebody. He didn't stop.

It just so happened that I was traveling the same way he was. I got his plate information, DOT number, etc. While my passenger called it into the police I called his employer and got their guy in charge of driver safety on the phone. I bet we followed him for 40 miles or more before I had to exit.

As I took my exit a state trooper that knew me called. He was working the accident and asked me where I was. Clearly no way he could catch up to us. He said he was going to get all of the information to the scale houses ahead of us to see if they could get him stopped.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

She very well could have been willing to shoot at anybody there that had followed her.

Not only that, but judging from the photos, she likely would have been putting errant rounds into neighboring houses had she started firing.

She willfully endangered everyone in the neighborhood on top of the criminal offenses she seems to have committed up to the moment she was gacked in her own yard.

Completely unnecessary all of it. The guy could have gotten the plate number and called the police and given them the address. She could have stayed in the house and called the police on him Then the police could have sorted things out. She was the stupidest and paid for it. Sad the real innocent person died.

I have not seen any explanation of the allegedly deliberate act that started the whole sequence -- the woman hitting the motorcycle.

Is there any information about that?

---

This whole thing happened in Orange City, FL, which is maybe 30 minutes from where I live.

quote:

The guy could have gotten the plate number and called the police

The problem with that around here is that the car may very well be stolen.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
I have not seen any explanation of the allegedly deliberate act that started the whole sequence -- the woman hitting the motorcycle.

Is there any information about that?

---

This whole thing happened in Orange City, FL, which is maybe 30 minutes from where I live.

Thank you. I was just about to post the exact same thing. Like many stories, it feels like there is a big part of what happened missing from the statements.

I'm sure the family will accuse the biker of trespassing and cite "stand your ground" laws justifying her confrontation with him.

But we all know you can't draw a gun unless you are justified in shooting, meaning you already have a reasonable fear of death or grievous bodily harm. I'm pretty sure the biker didn't threaten her, but I would like to understand what was said, his posture, and his proximity to her. You can hear her scream "you followed me home!?" so perhaps in her mind she felt threatened.

10 or so years ago I was followed home by a road rager. I had passed him a few miles away from home, on a two lane in a place where passing was legal, but prior to that point the road is no passing due to a hill. Guess he didn't like being passed because he was flashing his lights and doing other dumb things from behind me. I kept my speed at the limit, and turned into a subdivision that adjoins mine, and then took the winding internal road that connects to my subdivision, and finally to my house. I went inside and armed myself, stood outside my opened garage door, and kept the gun concealed.

Sure enough a few seconds later the road rager pulled up to my house, stopped in the road, said some stuff I didn't really understand from the window and drove off. I think he knew better than to get out of the car and start anything. He may have surmised I was armed but again, it was concealed. It's different because I didn't do anything to harm him or his car, just passed him, although I was probably going a bit fast when I got around him. But that's my risk if I was speeding, not his job to enforce the limit, which he was sorta doing in the first place like a speed limit squatter, which is why I passed him in the first place.

And I certainly didn't brandish when he was outside my house in the street because I'm not stupid.

Wasn't this in Florida?

There's two states (FL? & UT) where the state has to prove in a preliminary hearing, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the shooting was NOT self defense. Only then can charges be brought. Then in trial, the state has to prove it again before the jury, and none of the testimony from the preliminary hearing can be used in the jury trial. IOW, the defense gets two bites at the apple.

It is a very high bar for the state to overcome. I doubt they'll even try here. There certainly would have NEVER been a trial like the KR trial in Utah for this (and other) reasons, and I believe Florida is the same. Our law just went into effect this year, and I read that it was modeled after the Florida law. Correct me if I'm wrong.

^^^ But I would imagine (Florida, Utah, or no...), like Rittenhouse, if his actions caused his need to defend himself then self defense goes out the window.

That's what we don't know.

Perhaps he was being the aggressor or perhaps he pointed the pistol at her and she was trying to get away. Lots of unknowns.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

The guy could have gotten the plate number and called the police

The problem with that around here is that the car may very well be stolen.

My neighbor is a LEO. He says most crimes involving vehicles around here are temp tags.

Multiple witnesses backup the guy’s version of the story including one talking to 911 as it happened. I can’t find it now, but one article I read say the motorcyclist and witnesses stayed on the road in front of her house while waiting for police and she came to them.

Link:

"Police say 36-year-old Sara Nicole Morales had the intent to hit a motorcyclist on Volusia Avenue after some kind of incident and then took off. The motorcyclist was not seriously hurt. He then followed her, along with several witnesses to the hit-and-run, and one of those witnesses called 911.

“The lady just took off and left. What kind of vehicle was it? It's a blue Kia,” the caller said.

Police say the motorcyclist and others were trying to get Morales to stop but that she refused. She turned onto east Wisconsin and drove a mile or more to her home with the hit-and-run victim and several others in pursuit.

Police say Morales ran inside and came back out with a gun. On the call, you can hear Morales briefly yelling at the motorcyclist and then gunshots.

According to police, multiple shots were allegedly fired at Morales by the hit and run motorcycle victim, after he claimed she pointed a gun at him. Several of the witnesses backed that up.

“Why did he shoot her?” the operator asked.

“Because she pulled a gun out on him,” the caller replied.

The motorcyclist, having a valid Florida concealed weapons permit, drew his concealed handgun and fired multiple rounds, striking Morales, a report says.

Morales was transported to Halifax Hospital where she succumbed to her injuries and was pronounced dead.

Morales' handgun was recovered on scene.

According to a police report, the man told authorities when they arrived: "That girl tried to kill me, she pointed a gun at me."

Police say he remained on scene and has been cooperating with law enforcement. So far, he is not being charged.

Detectives say they are still investigating, but they are treating this as a case of self defense. Neither Morales, nor the motorcyclist have any previous local criminal history.

Sara Morales worked for Volusia County as a library assistant.

The county closed the Deland and Pierson libraries to give staff at both, who she worked with, time to grieve.

Anyone with information concerning this incident, please contact Det. Kenneth Jones at 386-775-9999.“

Though I may open myself to being flamed a bit here, this whole thing seems like a major cluster to me. The accident didn't appear to leave the motorcyclist injured or his bike inoperable, so I really think the better course of action would have been to call 911 and maybe follow her as far as her house, identify the location, relay it the police, and let the police handle it. Following the woman all the way to her house and continuing the encounter was dumb given the world we live in today. Of course her intentionally hitting the motorcyclist in the first place and then pulling a gun on him doesn't win her a Nobel prize either.

quote:

The county closed the Deland and Pierson libraries to give staff at both, who she worked with, time to grieve.

What a load of crap. Someone you work with takes a dirt nap and they have to shut down everything so people can grieve? Really?

Bigdeal,

I don't think the motorcyclist continued the encounter once he arrived in front of her residence. The story infers he waited there for police to arrive. (as opposed to approaching her front door step, walking around her yard, etc)

Strange tale. I agree the motorcyclist really only needed to relay the vehicle identification to police, but very curious as to what kind of rage the young lady was experiencing. People are nuts and the less you engage with them, the better off you will be.

Life is all about choices. I think that if someone hits you with a car and you follow them to their home and wait on the street for the police that isn’t unreasonable. Smart, best choice? That’s a decision you have to make.

I’m tired of people getting a pass on bad behavior. If she did actually commit a hit and run and she actually walked outside and pointed a gun at this guy while he and others are waiting for cops she is 100% at fault. I won’t fault someone for trying to get a criminal and the police united.

This is all on her and her unborn child is the victim. Stand your ground my ass, not if she had already committed a felony, and she knew that.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:
Though I may open myself to being flamed a bit here, this whole thing seems like a major cluster to me.

Not gonna flame ya, but I'll disagree. This was a righteous shoot. The motorcyclist did right by following her to the street that she lived on. She had already been into her house (to retrieve the gun) and CAME BACK OUT to point at and perhaps use the gun on a guy that simply wanted to let LEO's know where she lived and what happened. Upon seeing the woman bring the gun up, he popped her a few times. That's as legit a reason as any to put someone down for a dirt nap. Regardless of how you would have handled the accident portion, this person decided they weren't taking a chance at letting someone skate from an INTENTIONAL hit and run. As has been relayed by several folks in this thread: the probability of the vehicle, plates, or the combination thereof being stolen, outdated, or otherwise untraceable was fairly high. Descriptions based on color and make are extremely difficult to trace as well. How many blue Kia's do you think are running around Daytona Beach and the surrounding areas? I'm gonna say more than a few.

Perhaps you've never dealt with an insurance company regarding hit and runs. It's not a very easy process to go through and you'll feel as if you were treated almost as if YOU were the one that caused the damage.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I’m tired of people getting a pass on bad behavior. If she did actually commit a hit and run

Not just a hit and run, attempted motor vehicle homicide by ramming a motorcyclist.

quote:

Originally posted by ryan81986:

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I’m tired of people getting a pass on bad behavior. If she did actually commit a hit and run

Not just a hit and run, attempted motor vehicle homicide by ramming a motorcyclist.

Aggravated assault by Florida statute, at a minimum. The motorcyclist did nothing wrong, as far as written law.