quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Dan-
I had the pleasure of building a second home for a guy who was in charge of R&D at Ethyl Oil a few years ago. Ethyl Oil is (was) one of the two companies who made the additive package for the major oil companies.

When I bought my first Porsche I asked him what was the best thing to do and he sat me down and gave me a very detailed 45 minute talk about what to do.
Basically, no manufacturer uses a break in oil now with the advances in machining and oil packages. Having said that he told me to do the first oil change between 1000 and 2000 miles and then to do subsequent oil changes around 5000 miles with a good synthetic (he liked Castrol and Penzoil).
No matter how well an engine is manufactured there is always some mating of dissimilar metals and this process creates small metal particles that can score the various components in the engine.

The manufacturers in their quest to minimize maintenance costs to the consumer have stretched out OCI in some cases up to a ridiculous 10,000 miles. All they are concerned about is that the engine makes it through the warranty period.

If you plan on keeping your vehicle longer than that you really should increase your OCI and as was said above get a Fumoto valve for your drain pan and it will greatly simplify the process.

5k changes are never wrong, although for awhile I was doing a lot of freeway driving and I really stretched my change intervals. I did UOAs to confirm that there was no excessive wear and would still do 10k changes if all I did was freeway driving.

For basic commuting, 5k changes are fine, especially with GDI engines.

I have Fumotos on all my vehicles and I can't recommend them enough.

Personally I am more concerned about what oil a dealer is using than the frequency of the changes. I am thinking of buying and having the dealer use something like mobil one on the new 4Runner. FWIW.

Break in is usually reserved to get the oil out that may have picked up any particles left in the engine during manufacturing, no matter how small. Since Toyotas fubar of their new Tundra engine, it's clear that the possibility of metal shavings from all the CNC work can be left there, from any manufacturer

Harley has a early service interval on new bikes presumably to protect the engine from any damage from assembly shavings, and remember they don't have to be chips or hunks of metal, just slivers that can build up in the micro sized oil ports or inside bearings. Although many think it's just a ploy for dealers to get a few hundred dollars more out of the new bike sale.

Changing it won't hurt anything, if you want to be real sure, cut the filter open and look for shavings, and DIY the change so you can check the old oil for any shine of metal on the surface or metal particles.

DIY it's about $100 and some time, or you could get it done at the dealer or quick lube, it won't hurt a thing to do.

I always do a break-in oil change. I aim for 500 to 1,000 miles. It can't hurt! Modern engines and oils are very much better than they were even 20 years ago, but I expect to keep my vehicles for the long haul and would rather spend a little on frequent oil changes than have an early engine failure.

On my two automobiles I now use an oil suction pump to remove the old oil. After testing it by removing the oil and then pulling out the drain plug, there was almost zero oil left after using the suction. Removing all the underneath plastics is a lot of hassle and imho not necessary with these 2 vehicles.

I have used Fumoto valves on previous vehicles and really like them.

I doubt the dealer would include an early oil change in their service plan, but it could be worth the phone call.

^^^My wife’s Explorer has the panels underneath like that. The first time I went to do an oil change on it, I said “screw it, I’m going to try the pump I bought for the jet skis.” I got almost all the oil out it’s supposed have and figure that is good enough. The oil filter is a cartridge type accessed from the top of the engine.

I do the 1st change early, but not excessive. That could be 2-3k miles.

quote:

Originally posted by pbslinger:

quote:

Your drive train is under warranty for 5 years/60000 miles so why would Toyota recommend oil change intervals that might possible cause damage to the engine that would require they repair/replace on their dime??????

Because they don't care if it goes beyond 60K miles, which it probably would without any changes.

Yep. That's the answer right there.

In fact, if OP has Toyota Care or whatever they call it these days, I'm willing to bet the actual oil change interval is 10,000 miles and not 5,000 miles. If you read the manual and service receipt carefully, it will likely say "check oil level and top off at 5,000 miles."

When we bought our Highlander new in 2018 and I took it in for its first service, that's what happened. I skipped Toyota Care after that and did an oil and oil filter change myself every 5,000 miles. I chose 5,000 miles because it's also easy to remember for tire rotations.

Quality oil and quality filter will get you a long way. Like a previous poster said, get that Fumoto valve! It will save so much work.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
The Motor Oil Geek doesn't just tell his opinions. All of his videos are analysis and data driven.

This right here. ^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm in the boat of change early, then often.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
No matter how well an engine is manufactured there is always some mating of dissimilar metals and this process creates small metal particles that can score the various components in the engine.

Thank you for that, Eddie. I had thought a lot about chips and slivers, but not a bit about the byproducts of mating dissimilar metals.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:
Fumotos

I'm looking at those, too. There's a skid plate covering the entire area (though not a heavy duty one -- yet), so I don't worry much about any accidental opening of the valve.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Break in is usually reserved to get the oil out that may have picked up any particles left in the engine during manufacturing, no matter how small.

That's my primary thought -- the last little bit of machining/manufacturing debris, if any, plus whatever chips/slivers may develop from the initial running of the engine.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
quick lube

Now, that's sketchy.

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
Mobil one on the new 4Runner.

Yessir, Mobil 1 it will be.

quote:

Originally posted by hvactech:
I'm in the boat of change early, then often.

I like that plan.

With synthetic in my old SUV, I've got as much as 8000 miles before changing, and everything I've read says there's no harm in 10k. Given its age now, though, I do a lot more adding than changing.

I can speak to this topic...

I am a big fan of DIY for oil changes...

I think the gist of the question is whether it's worth it to change oil early on new vehicles.

The answer is, I don't know, but I do it anyway :-)

I have been experimenting with various oils (mostly synthetic) as well as Used oil analysis for nearly 50 years now.

I guess you could call me an amateur tribologist. I have proven to myself, through Used oil analysis, that new vehicles have an analytically higher amount of metals in their initial fill of oil, after the vehicle gets a few hundred miles on it. In fact, this increased amount often continues after the oil has been changed, up to an average of 10K miles or even more. I believe this is a fact, after analyzing the initial fill oil of dozens of new vehicles between 500 - 1000 miles.

What I cannot state as fact is whether these increased amounts are significant and whether removing them early (on the theory the metals may be abrasive) results in reduced engine wear over time.

But this measurement is so consistent that I change out the first 2 - 3 fills of oil early. It's cheap enough and easy enough to do and it makes me feel better :-). I have never had a vehicle whose initial fills of oil had the same or lower metals than oil fills occurring after 10K miles or so.

You can search for my handle (btanchors) for postings on bobistheoilguy.com, I have made lots of postings there about this.

What about the aspect of giving the new engine a chance to "wear in" with the original oil? Personally I think there is something to it. I think a 3000-5000k mile first oil change is fine. I would not go over that.

The consensus back in day for the high revving AP1 S2000 engine was a resounding YES.

At 1,395 miles I changed out the factory oil for Pennzoil 10W30 + Valvoline MaxLife Engine Protectant. The later highly recommended by several Tribologists as having exceptional additives conducive to excellent long life engine wear. And the same oil change again at 5,436 miles.
Then at 10,215 miles switched to Lubrication Engineers LE8130 Monolec 10W30 synthetic, also highly recommended. Currently have a bit over 37k on the clock and burn no oil.

Always have used highly rated OEM Toyo Roki oil filters as well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bald1,

I do my first one before 1000 and then every 3000 after with synthetic oil and a good filter.

You could try an experiment, sample your oil now and then change it. Send it to Blackstone labs and see what shows up in it. There is a lot of speculation, but I do my own oil changes and it is cheap insurance. People can argue about whether it helps or not, but nobody can truthfully state it hurts anything.

I was always told change the oil on a new engine after 500 miles. Makes sense. I delivered to the Ford transmission plant in Sharonville Ohio, and they put a big magnet in the bottom of the oil pan to catch the little slivers of metal.
I've got a whole bunch of them in my garage.

I think my other motors (Yamaha, Tohatsu, Polaris, Generac, etc.) call for a first oil change at 10 hours. For an automobile at an average speed of 50 miles/hour, 10 hours would be 500 miles. Coincidence?

Ethyl, mentioned earlier in this thread, became Afton Chemical in 2004. Afton still creates and manufactures engine oil additive packages for OEM and oil company customers.

Formulations today are different than back in the Ethyl heyday. But, to create one additive package for one customer is a very expensive and time-consuming effort. The testing is comprehensive and validates years of effort.

There is no question that an early oil change is desirable. None. And, do it yourself. Slowly. Enjoy the process. You want to choose the additive package / engine oil. For example, you might choose a major oil company full synthetic.

The internet is awash with oil evaluations. Please remember that all licensed engine oils pass the same tests, but some oil companies require performance beyond the minimum requirements. Buy your viscosity grade, from a major oil company, and enjoy the DIY process. Keep records for your Toyota, in case a warranty claim is required.


Oil drain interval (ODI) has been increasing, of late. People want to be greener, more environmentally responsible, etc. But, you're a SF member. You are special. You are different. You, sir, deserve the best for your vehicle. Change as often as you want.

As a 4MUL8R (formulator) of lubricants, I can tell you that passing all the tests is challenging. Buying from a major, well-regarded oil provider will ensure you have a great additive package and maximum potential engine life.

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
People can argue about whether it helps or not, but nobody can truthfully state it hurts anything.

But you could say the same for a 2,500 change or even a 2k change too.

There is no empirical evidence that an engine, running to 250k would have, say, an extended life to 275k or more with an early change. If it existed, oil geeks would knew this and it would be in the universal body of oil knowledge.

The oil is not the problem, if there is one, because even the cheap oils, with SP approval, are better than the oils from 5 years ago. The real focus should be on the oil filter and the micron rating. That's where the real work is done. Oil lubricates, cools and hold cooties in suspension until it gets to the filter.

I changed all of mine early but I'll admit there's no evidence that it makes any difference.

quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
worth the peace of mind knowing it was done properly.

^^^^^^
This in spades...

I would do the first oil and filter change at 1,400, (where you are now) then let the dealer change it at 5,000 assuming the latter is free under ToyotaCare. Otherwise do that yourself too.

I don't know on your truck if you need to remove the skid plate to drain the oil and access the oil filter, but you may want to remove it anyway as long as you're under there. Then you could put anti seize compound on the bolts to keep them from rusting up. My Tacoma had that problem. I went ten years or so without touching these bolts, then when I tried to remove them they would not budge. Checking the Tacoma Forum I found out this is a common problem that Taco owners bitterly complain about. I wish I had known.

quote:

I think the gist of the question is whether it's worth it to change oil early on new vehicles.

The answer is, I don't know, but I do it anyway :-)

This is my school of thought. First two early, with oil analysis (Blackstone). As long as everything had leveled off on second analysis then normal oil schedule for heavy duty use.

My plan my my new Toyota is 2k, 2k, 4k for third change and thereafter. If I approach 12 months before oil change then oil change based on time vs mileage. A third analysis at the ~16k mark.

I really don't care if I waste a little oil life, I'm more concerned about engine life. It's cheap piece of mind.

I also babied my car for the first 1,500mi before I floored it.