Alcohol is a drug just like the illicit drugs it’s just viewed differently because society accepts its legality. Alcohol is no less dangerous or less damaging to society, if anything it might be more damaging to society than illicit drugs. Saying junkies are worse than drunks seems to be a naive and somewhat ignorant statement. How do you quantify such a statement?

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
Most importantly, junkies have had an adverse effect on medical care for law-abiding patients. FUCK JUNKIES!

Ugh. Remember Vicks Night-time (D?) with Sudafed? Then (in Michigan at least) the junkies scared the lawmakers so badly that they required everything Sudafed be moved behind the counter. Vicks Night-time with Sudafed eventually went bye-bye because it didn't sell.

That's how I remember it anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by PD:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
In some ways alcoholics might be worse, as they have legal access to their substance.

Yeah but they’re not breaking into homes and cars. Drugs destroy the fabric of a neighborhood. They can destroy property values and hurt small businesses. Most importantly, junkies have had an adverse effect on medical care for law-abiding patients. FUCK JUNKIES!

I agree with this. There are major issues with both alcoholics and druggies. But I don't see alcoholics destroy a neighborhood like the junkies do. Here in South Florida, you have neighborhoods with homes $400k- $5 million dollars and on the edge of the neighborhood a rehab clinic on every other block. 3 out of 4 of the junkies come to the rehab clinic from out of state, 90% relapse on drugs before even finishing the rehab and they never make it home.......the junkies are everywhere, sleeping in peoples bushes in front of houses, at all of the grocery stores and convenient stores and gas stations pan handling, wandering into the neighborhoods and stealing whatever isn't tied down to get money to get their fix.

I would venture to say that it is rare, that you see homeless people like this that are JUST alcoholics, usually the homeless people that are alcoholics are drug users as well.

"Please. You can not compare alcoholics to junkies. Junkies are a pox on society."


11,000 people dying from drunk driving in a year does not seem that bad , if, you consider that 180,000 babies are born every year.

so we got THAT going for us, which is nice

( in my book ,boozers that can not keep it under control are 5th on the list)

There are junkies, and there are junkies, same with drunks. Not every drug user is a total waste, just like not every drunk is, but neither is better or worse than the other.

If hard drugs where legal, and available, it would get the criminals out of the drug business. It would make the drugs safer, and would lighten the load on law enforcement. There is currently an entire criminal organization that supplies drug users with their fix, anyone who wants drugs can find a way to get them now, why not bring that whole shadow organization out and legitimize it, regulate it and tax it. If my business has to play by the rules, why should illegal drug manufacturers, distributors and dealers get to shirk them. The best way to stop illegal drugs is to legalize them and then allow our government to lord over them like they do every other industry.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
To piggy back on this- my personal opinion as a long practicing medical professional is the whole mess can be laid at the feet of joint commission! Back in the late 80’s early 90’s they were the ones jabbering about doctors not controlling pain make pain the fifth vital sign you must address pain we are watching you!

FINALLY someone who understands the root of the problem!!
The above is why addicts would show up at an ED and demand narcotics - and get them. Doesn't matter if it's their 3rd prescription this week, give them what they want or we'll get a complaint.
The hospital administrators couldn't possibly tell the fuckups where to shove their complaint. That wouldn't be touchy-feely.
So now we go down the road of legit pain needs being ignored.

I was informed by SWMBO that she didn't place the blame on Joint Comission.
She blames HCAHPS. The Hospital Consumer Assessment of Healthcare Providers and Systems survey.
This fiasco she believes is the reason the hospital admin types push for zero complaints.
Medicare reimbursement payments are tied to pt satisfction scores. And everyone knows that corporate types are ALL about the money. Without it, they don't get their golden parachutes.

I wonder how many narcotic RX's written over the last 12 yrs or so (to avoid complaints) were diverted to the streets?
Of course, this turd bundle is forced on all of us by the ACA - Obamacare.

Link: JAMA article
From the link -
The survey was voluntary at its launch in 2006, then required for hospitals operating under the inpatient prospective payment system to receive their full annual payment update. Subsequently, the ACA incorporated it into the payment incentive calculations in the Hospital Value-Based Purchasing Program, applying more pressure on hospitals to attend to patients’ experiences of care.

The goobermint creates a problem through legislation, then they "save us from ourselves" with more legislation.
The wheels go round n' round, grind us to mush and we get the privilege of paying for it!

Cheering for the death of children is not so noble

When someone decides to engage in behavior that will likely result in their death, with the full knowledge of the fact that it will most likely result in their deaths before taking the decision, who are we to try and change the outcome? Is anyone who decides to use hard drugs by definition mentally ill and therefore not responsible enough to make any decisions as important as if they should take hard drugs? No matter where you stand on the issue, or where I stand, I can assure you that I am not cheering for the death of anyone. But I am not demanding that we go out of our way to help those that decide to kill themselves. I see hard drugs more in the lines of high stakes gambling than serious mental illness, you take your drugs, you take your chances, you might get high, you might get dead. Controlling access to drugs in no different in my mind than controlling access to guns, or even bridges. If you want to jump off a bridge, or use a gun to blow your head off, or use hard drugs, why should the rest of us be kept from getting across the river, owning a gun, or buying sudafed without standing in line and giving our ID.

so it's settled then,

we put all the self destructive people( Druggies and boozers) in a giant stadium, twice a day we dump all the confiscated drugs in to the center field.

Their families that they torture, the victims of their crimes, their co-workers will plain old write them off,
and the rest of the people that want to make an effort in being productive
can pay admission to watch them destroy themselves and each other.

they might just turn themselves in !

this might make an ok movie

quote:

Originally posted by PD:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:
Those addicted to alcohol do not typically steal from others to get their next fix.

I have known many alcoholics who stole in order to buy booze.

Please. You can not compare alcoholics to junkies. Junkies are a pox on society.

Yes I can - same fucking problem/addiction/disease.

Why? Do you have a drinking issue?

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by PD:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:
Those addicted to alcohol do not typically steal from others to get their next fix.

I have known many alcoholics who stole in order to buy booze.

Please. You can not compare alcoholics to junkies. Junkies are a pox on society.

Yes I can - same fucking problem/addiction/disease.

Why? Do you have a drinking issue?

No. Do you have an opiate problem? You obviously haven’t read my other posts in this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by PD:....Please. You can not compare alcoholics to junkies. Junkies are a pox on society.

Yes I can - same fucking problem/addiction/disease.

Why? Do you have a drinking issue?

My favorite uncle died of alcoholism at a young age. Yet he claimed he couldn't be a real "alcoholic" as he drank only beer (which wasn't true, but a story he told to convince himself he wasn't addicted. )

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by PD:....Please. You can not compare alcoholics to junkies. Junkies are a pox on society.

Yes I can - same fucking problem/addiction/disease.

Why? Do you have a drinking issue?

My favorite uncle died of alcoholism at a young age. Yet he claimed he couldn't be a real "alcoholic" as he drank only beer (which wasn't true, but a story he told to convince himself he wasn't addicted. )

This thread is heading off the rails. It started off with dental work and pain meds but has now headed into the twilight zone.

quote:

Originally posted by PD:

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by PD:....Please. You can not compare alcoholics to junkies. Junkies are a pox on society.

Yes I can - same fucking problem/addiction/disease.

Why? Do you have a drinking issue?

My favorite uncle died of alcoholism at a young age. Yet he claimed he couldn't be a real "alcoholic" as he drank only beer (which wasn't true, but a story he told to convince himself he wasn't addicted. )

This thread is heading off the rails. It started off with dental work and pain meds but has now headed into the twilight zone.

Fundamentally, it’s about addiction. Not off the rails one bit… There are societal consequences (I.e. doctors scared to prescribe effective pain relief medications) for a disease not well-managed; dare I say not even understood.

Furthermore, any intellectually honest person who looks back at drug prohibition laws from the late 20s early 1930s in North America will clearly see the link between racism and what substances got “prohibited”. Nothing rational about it other than skin color.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified: Furthermore, any intellectually honest person who looks back at drug prohibition laws from the late 20s early 1930s in North America will clearly see the link between racism and what substances got “prohibited”. Nothing rational about it other than skin color.

There's some truth to that. Marijuana is Schedule I "No legitimate medical purpose". What is the "medical purpose" of alcohol? One could certainly argue that alcohol has less medical purpose than either MJ or opioids.

As the OP in this thread, I like and agree with the direction its taking. It goes to the root of why I didn't get a decent prescription after the "invasive" surgery. Nothing I'd done wrong, but because government has inserted itself between the care provider and the patient (me) to insure I suffer the proper amount. At the very least.

It relates to the illegal actions of the favored group (druggies) in causing me to suffer. I even agree with the suggestions of 3 strikes or whatever. I'd also suggest everyone go back and read the thread about the tool some here don't understand. Substitute using the tool on the male abusers after the 3rd time they've required the Narcam. Let them wake up on the stretcher with a vague pain in their privates. Discharge them from the hospital after a proper period.

Soon they realize their seeking drugs has resulted in their lower sex drive. Doesn't kill them, just makes them wish they were dead.

Every discussion about drugs eventually sidetracks into an argument about whether they are as bad or worse than alcohol.
I think this is misguided for two reasons:
1. Alcohol is so low-tech and has been around through all recorded history, so it has an established. a place in our culture that is nearly impossible to dislodge.
2. That said, look at how harmful alcohol actually is. Maybe YOU think you can drink responsibly, but look at the undeniably negative overall effects. Even if a drug is "no worse" than alcohol we still don't need ANOTHER horrible drug scourging our society.

To SIGnified, rburg, Crom:

I think you all make a lot of sense.

quote:

Originally posted by PD:
This thread is heading off the rails. It started off with dental work and pain meds but has now headed into the twilight zone.

It is actually right on schedule. Those who profit emotionally and monetarily from trying to convince people that druggies are poor, poor victims always resort to this type of stuff. The alcohol ruse is the golden goose to them as it allows a false third grade style narrative to be created. And pretty much from there it is the same lack of self control cussing, claiming that anyone who disagrees is intellectually dishonest, and tactics not unlike what you see from the left of attempted to shout down what they don't agree with.

It's real hard to argue with facts and what we see day to day. But, you will never be able to reason with people who see no problem in spending millions of your money to save people who don't want to be saved. They are completely OK with actions with no consequence. You just have to preface it with junk science of the tale of poor, poor Johnny, or you have to attach "God I hope this never happens to your family" and you're all good.