quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
grumpy, since you started this thread, I've been doing quite a bit of research into these cars as I was kinds of in the market for a new car. I hadn't thought of a Camry til now. I am impressed with the XSE, but as you said, there aren't a lot of them around. Despite being pricey, I think they get scooped up pretty quickly.

Your SE is sharp looking! I'll have to take a peek at them and see what's on the lot with various extra options.

Thanks! I found Toyota SmartPath very helpful in finding what vehicles were available or coming up available. Most dealers have very few in the lot but have a lot coming in via "in transit" or "building phase". Most of the vehicle seem to be "pending sale" before ever getting to the dealer which I found typically requires a non refundable $500 deposit.

Here is the link to Toyota SmartPath. You enter your zip code and miles from your zip code to search. Then you select the model and trim levels you are looking for. There are other options you can filter for too. Individual dealers also have options to search through their inventory at their website.

https://www.toyota.com/search-inventory/model/camry/?

^^^ Thanks for the link, grumpy. If nothing else, the scarcity of the model overall is a testament to its quality...which everyone pretty much knows.

Good buy. That’s the trim to get as well. It skips all the shit that can break and you get a much better price. Solid decision IMO.

AWD is indeed the way to drive. 2 of my 3 4 wheelers are AWD. One has mechanical torque vectoring in the rear and the other has front and rear Torsen differentials. The rain, especially heavy rain (not to mention snow/ice), is where the drivetrain shines. You are locked in with traction (providing the tires are good) and cornering in AWD vs. RWD or FWD, well there is no comparison which drivetrain is vastly superior.

Enjoy!

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:
Good buy. That’s the trim to get as well. It skips all the shit that can break and you get a much better price. Solid decision IMO.

AWD is indeed the way to drive. 2 of my 3 4 wheelers are AWD. One has mechanical torque vectoring in the rear and the other has front and rear Torsen differentials. The rain, especially heavy rain (not to mention snow/ice), is where the drivetrain shines. You are locked in with traction (providing the tires are good) and cornering in AWD vs. RWD or FWD, well there is no comparison which drivetrain is vastly superior.

Enjoy!

Thanks, and I appreciate the info on the AWD.

Toyota seems to have pushed their chips in on forcing their customers into a hybrid. I would buy a Toyota if a hybrid is what I wanted.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Toyota seems to have pushed their chips in on forcing their customers into a hybrid. I would buy a Toyota if a hybrid is what I wanted.

We initially were not interested in a hybrid but not a lot of good choices for mainstream sedans these days for our wants and needs. I primarily was concerned with increased costs of maintaining one but after a lot of research it seems with at least Toyota that is not a concern and the battery has a ten year 150K miles warranty. Interestingly last time I checked Toyota/Lexus had like eight out of the top ten selling vehicles in the USA.

I'm going to test drive an XLE tomorrow afternoon, though I'm more interested in a XSE. Still, I'll get the feel and that'll give me more info on how I want to proceed. I do see another nearby dealer has an XSE that I like the features on.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
^^^ Thanks for the link, grumpy. If nothing else, the scarcity of the model overall is a testament to its quality...which everyone pretty much knows.

Theres a lot more to it than just quality of the product, which I'm not debating, Toyota makes a quality product, but that's not the only reason, nor main reason why they are scarce.

Link

SmartPath is Toyotas factory to consumer connection, you can locate, apply for financing and do just about anything to buy your next Toyota, lots of dealers have joined SmartPath, but not all, so even though you can look there not all dealers participate as it's voluntary for now.

Link Cox Automotive Toyota Analysis

Toyota has curtailed production so that dealers are operating with just 24-30 day of inventory vs national 60 day average. Part of your finding these vehicles hard to locate is they are not making dealers hold as many and have gone to a shorter number of allowed days on lots.

That means it looks like they are scarce due to demand, and it is in a way, but it's more because Toyota isn't putting more cars on lots, so dealers are stocking just a bit less than enough vehicles to meet demand. This results in higher prices to the consumer and less choice in vehicles, a main reason that finding the one you want is harder to do.

Now this isn't saying Toyota's quality isn't good, far from it.

It's that the company has changed the way vehicles are provided to the network of dealers, worldwide, since covid. Toyota and their dealers learned during COVID that low inventory kept prices high, and we know that when demand is not easily fulfilled it will cost more to the consumer.

Toyota know that this method keeps vehicles from needing factory rebates and buy downs, which dealers and Toyota both like, you want a Camry, you pay the price, and you feel lucky to get one... its so popular, everyone wants one, the quality is the reason, etc. sales Psychology 101, but business acumen learned during COVID.

My nephew runs a Toyota dealer in WVA, they don't mark them up, but you have to put a deposit down, and order it because they sell every one allocated at full price. They also didn't and still don't jack up trade values to make up for the massive markup like other dealers did in COVID. The advice to shop around pays dividends.

So don't fall for the "they don't have many for sale it's quality must be why line, that's not the entire reason for finding low inventory at Toyota stores. The other piece of the puzzle is holding costs known as floorplan, this is a big expense, how do you reduce paying the bank money as a dealer for your cars, hold less inventory.

This of course is made easier when your manufacturer isn't pushing inventory out the plant to keep up production numbers for the investment people who bank the stock on units made vs margin earned per unit.

Other dealers will sell anything at any price being loaded with inventory, even at a loss, made up with back door incentives at the end of the quarter. Carry costs are a big number that dealerships can control, having a ton of selection means more expense, Toyota has embraced this as a way to shore up dealer profits.

That's not a knock on Toyota per se but more a look into how the smart they are at adapting production to sales numbers and improving the bottom line of their dealer/factory relationships and production numbers are influencing your cost for a vehicle. That's why Lexus and Toyota dealerships sell for way more than others, bigger profit margins.

I used to be married to specific brands, no longer, it's about the deal, and if you can find a competitive brand at a better cost, go there, don't let all the brand hype about quality and lineage force you into a bad financial decision, Toyotas are very good, but Hondas are as well as other options.

Cars are not investments unless you're buying a 1960's Ferrari GTO 250 or Daytona to put in your portfolio....

“The Warden’s “ 2014 Passat has 140k so a replacement is near. Id buy the Honda Accord. I like how their ECVT simulates gear shifts. Reliability is a toss up.

HRK, thanks for that info; it doesn't surprise me.

I'll know more about my plans tomorrow and see if I move forward with a possible purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
HRK, thanks for that info; it doesn't surprise me.

I'll know more about my plans tomorrow and see if I move forward with a possible purchase.

BTW I'm not trying to dissuade you from a Toyota, they are very good cars with a great history, just explaining why they appear to be difficult to find....

I do understand that. My last three cars have been Hondas and think they fall into the very good car category. But for this particular application, it seems to me Toyota has them beat...at least by a little. I'm willing to play the scarce car game if I can get what I want off some lot.

We took a short round trip mini getaway driving 350 miles total. Got 38.6 MPG to get there and 41.3 to get back. Checked the fluid levels a couple times too and odd seeing two coolant overflow tanks under the hood. Really liking it so far. Interesting in that Toyota specifies 0w-8 motor oil for it which supposedly is in short supply. I was able to buy two 5 quart bottles of Mobil 1 at Walmart to have on hand.

Not to highjack grumpy's thread, but I pulled the trigger on a sport version and appreciate all the comments in this thread to lead me in this direction. I had to travel to Connecticut to get it, but the dealer picked me up, had an over $3k dealer incentive and is dealing with registering it for me and getting plates. No complaints.

Congrats! The SE/XSEs sure look nice.

Thanks! It's a very sharp car. Not a true sports car, but sporty enough for me.

Grey and black looks great ! Congrats.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:
I pulled the trigger on a sport version

That looks great! Congrats, 6guns!

Thanks, guys! It's a whole new learning experience now. Overall, it feels like a very appropriate vehicle for me.

Very nice looking car, now you get to watch NASCAR and have skin in the game!