I'm very intrigued by this discussion, especially the electrostatic speakers.

I checked: you can get a brand new pair of Magnepans for under $2500.
I was amazed—they get great reviews.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I checked: you can get a brand new pair of Magnepans for under $2500.
I was amazed—they get great reviews.

I've been sold on them since the mid '70s (hearing Tympani 1-D (3 panels per side monsters) driven by stacks of Bryston amps in a Berkley boutique audio store)

and have owned some (IIIa's) since 1999!

Current model in the 3 formerly III series I have is called the 3.7i and retails for $7995.
I believe Stan (sjtill) is referring to either the 1.7i that retails for $2795 or the .7 at $1995 currently.




and for comparison my vintage IIIa (difference XO slope and lower ribbon ) compared to earlier III model, otherwise the same.

Originally posted by ftttu:
I’ve seen a video where the difference between two cables - zip cord vs high end cables, was played, and even at full volume, was inaudible.

I have hearing damage due to concerts, shooting, race cars, jets, etc, but at all critical listening of fine cables vs others, I’ve never been able to discern any difference between any grade cable.

Still, I’m into the hobby, so I like good looking cables with good connectors.

EDIT - sorry for double post

Talk to these guys. https://paducahhometheater.com/

They deal in speakers most of us have only read about.

The problem with Maggies is that being dipolar, they need enough clearance behind them in order for them to work. Magnepan recommends 6 feet. That’s a lot of real estate in a typical living room. My Dad loves his, but he only has MMGs. They would not work in my living room.

quote:

Originally posted by Veeper:
You guys are way beyond where I’m going to be, and I’m completely at peace with that.

If you want into the Focal world, there's the Theva and Vestia lines:

https://www.crutchfield.com/g_...nvpair=FFBrand|Focal

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:
The problem with Maggies is that being dipolar, they need enough clearance behind them in order for them to work. Magnepan recommends 6 feet. That’s a lot of real estate in a typical living room. My Dad loves his, but he only has MMGs. They would not work in my living room.

I'm disappointed to read that; I wasn't aware. Does the performance drop drastically with less distance?

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:

quote:

Originally posted by Milliron:
The problem with Maggies is that being dipolar, they need enough clearance behind them in order for them to work. Magnepan recommends 6 feet. That’s a lot of real estate in a typical living room. My Dad loves his, but he only has MMGs. They would not work in my living room.

I'm disappointed to read that; I wasn't aware. Does the performance drop drastically with less distance?

In the ones I have heard, yes. Their performance is very tied to adequate space behind them. I have found them difficult to dial in for that reason. I spent an afternoon wrestling with a pair of 1.7s a few years ago at a store trying to fix the sound while auditioning them. My Dad didn’t like his until I walked over and pulled them out an additional 1.5 feet, and the sound changed dramatically (his only need about 4 feet of clearance as they are small).

When properly set up they have a soundstage that is unearthly. Simply holographic. But you really need the room and a lot of power to drive them. They are only 86dB sensitive into 4 ohm impedance and that makes them a bitch to drive. From an audiophile perspective, they’re pretty neat, but a little tricky.

I appreciate your insight, Milliron!

All I can say is I will have Klipschorns someday.

Millron is correct. Obviously I have the floor space to properly set up my Maggie's. Frankly the lack of adequate space was the reason it took so long to acquire a set after hearing some back in the mid 70s.

If you search reviews of the MGIIIa's you'll find one in which placement and how the reviewer's brick rear wall made a big difference in controlling rearward sound reflections is discussed. My living room has such a surface behind my speakers ensuring purity of the reproduced sound. And yes the soundstage is glorious enveloping the listener.

Note too that there is a monoblock power amplifier next to each speaker panel to provide sufficient current delivery to effortlessly power the speakers. FWIW there is also an additional stereo amp in the equipment rack that works in bi-amping the Maggie's and driving a 18" subwoofer. As an aside the speakers do not need to be bi-amped nor do most want or need a subwoofer and the system integration challenges for frequencies below 40Hz.

It took quite some time to dial in the big sub to work seamlessly with the Maggie's but once done it provides that lower register "punch" that the planars can't deliver. Together they have been a source of joy and have garnered compliments from a wide range of friends and visitors.

ADDENDUM:
Decided to add this that I posted in a 2018 thread here.

My 1986 vintage MGIIIa "true ribbon" speakers were bought used the day before Christmas in 1999. Restoration / modification can be broken down into 4 areas:

1. Ribbon replacement. The tweeter's very thin foil is extremely fragile and can be subject to thermal fatigue and blown if over "pushed." Replacement is fairly straightforward. New tweeters can be obtained from the factory with the old ones swapped for the new. Installation is easy with the driver screwed in and leads (possible resistor too depending on S/N of the speakers) soldered. Picture below shows the vertical ribbon tweeter mounted in the back of the panel.

2. Delamination of the mid and bass drivers. The thin wires can become delaminated from the speaker mylar framework causing heavy distortion and buzzing. The fix involves removing the sock (speaker fabric cover) and re-gluing (special glue needed: DAP Weldwood contact cement many recommend over 3M Super 77 spray adhesive) the very thin wires (new or old) back in place. And if the mylar is torn that can be fixed as well with glued on patches. Not a job for the timid. My speakers didn't need this attention nor did I ever think I was up to the task. The alternative is to return the units to the factory (or a trusted third party) for repair. FWIW the factory is a 10 hour drive away for me. And were I to drive or send them to the factory their repair would automatically include removing the crossover tweaks I made returning everything to stock. Their policy.

3. Crossover network. When the MGIIIa was a new model many developed refinements to the factory setup. Parts kits were common. But when I got the speakers such was no longer the case. I was however able to assemble a parts kit based on the Parts Connection mod documentation. Installation could be done by either fabricating a larger new outboard crossover box or simply modding the interior of the factory box and replacing components directly on the back of the speaker. I opted for the less elegant later solution using clear silicon to seal the higher grade new components to the back of the panel. It required that I cut away part of the sock.


4. Speaker stands. Many choose to upgrade the speaker stands from the pedestrian factory brackets. After market stuff runs in the $300 range if memory serves but many with fabrication skills (sadly not me) make their own. They add rigidity and floor coupling which is said to improve sonic performance. I left mine stock.

I used a SLM (sound level meter) to measure the speakers performance. I found the brick fireplace behind the speakers set up properly (toe in, distances, etc.) did an outstanding job of "regulating" the bipolar sound wave radiation. Ironically this same type of back wall was noted in one of the Stereophile reviews of these speakers as optimum.

There are a number of online forums where restoring Magneplanar speakers are addressed. At the time the Audio Asylum membership was very helpful to me.

My living room is a bit unusual where I have a speakers on two adjacent walls away from a corner; not ideal I suppose. Trying to figure out how I'd place them 4-6 feet away from each wall.

As much as I like the idea of the open and natural sounds of Magneplanars, maybe they just aren't for me.

I have some old Bose 601's that have served me well. I have no idea of what's hot these days.

Farmer Phil built his party barn around $12,000.00 worth of speakers.
And another $10,000.00 for acoustic enhancements to ensure that the sound from the speakers did'nt get distorted.

Weddings,showers,birthdays anniversaries, holidays, super bowl and world series , Xmas parties .

Evidently life is great when you process 3200 acres of grain

Perhaps this would be better as its own thread, but when incorporating these higher end speakers, what “source” brings out their best? Is there a streaming service that provides enough dynamic range? CDs? Vinyl? Curious as well as what the minimum requirements of an amp might be.

^^^ I'm no expert, but I think CD's or vinyl vs. streaming would offer the better source.

As for power each speaker has it's own power requirements. For example, I've learned that Klipsch having horn technology are very efficient and thus require less power.

Focal has similar power efficiency because they make all their own drivers and will do custom sets for each speaker so they don't have to use an aggressive crossover that sucks power.

It also depends on what you're streaming. If you're streaming using Airplay 2, you're getting a lossless signal to your receiver and several streaming services that will stream files larger than 16/44.1 files which are CD equivalent.

As far as vinyl, it's very much like film vs. digital. You can eek out quality gains with vinyl, but it costs more money, requires you to change different components, do a lot of extra fiddling, and is a general pain in the ass.

Apple Music streams lossless.

quote:

Apple Music delivers an unparalleled listening experience that’s defined by the highest standards of audio quality. We developed our own implementation of AAC (Advanced Audio Codec) that delivers audio that’s virtually indistinguishable from the original studio recording. We also introduced Apple Digital Masters to deliver the highest-quality recordings. And now, we’re offering Apple Music subscribers the additional option to access our entire catalog encoded using lossless audio compression at no extra cost.

If you previously downloaded music from iTunes, you can delete and re-download; it will be in lossless format.

Also:

quote:

To listen to songs at sample rates higher than 48 kHz, you need an external digital-to-analog converter.

TBH, I haven't done an A/B comparison of CD equivalent source to Apple Lossless. I should, could save money if I can't hear the difference.
And, oh, the convenience of HomePods!

quote:

Originally posted by equivet:
Perhaps this would be better as its own thread, but when incorporating these higher end speakers, what “source” brings out their best? Is there a streaming service that provides enough dynamic range? CDs? Vinyl? Curious as well as what the minimum requirements of an amp might be.

Hi Res Streaming is available from Qobuz and Tidal.
I think Amazon and maybe Spotify might be offering or will offer soon a hi res stream.
I use Qobuz and have tried Tidal ~ to me Qobuz sounds better but Tidal might have a better interface.
I can also buy directly from Qobuz.