In today's installment of "this is bullshit:"

Raising a feminist son in the NYT.

Now, for the record, I'm all in favor of letting my son be whoever he is, but this article is deeply flawed. While it does say some of the right things, it gives a list of things YOU MUST DO to make sure your son is a feminist.

Now.

My main issue is this. When we encourage girls to do all kinds of things, and let them know they can be who they want, and do things men can do, are we raising them "masculinist?"

No. So why by letting a boy be who he is, is it raising a feminist?

Also, what if my boy likes all the things typical boys like? Do I have to go out of my way to expose him to "feminism," apparently yes.

If you recall my recent post on tolerance you'll know that I'm all for people living how they see fit. My problem with this article, is that if you're raising an "unconventional" son, it's automatically feminism.

Why do I have a problem with feminism? I don't, I honestly believe in equality. I have a problem with Feminism, and people who tell me I can't understand what it is like to be a woman, or black, etc. Now, for those people to insist that I raise MY son in any way, is shit. Especially if that way, is closed to me as a man.

My son is 3, and there are years ahead of us where we find out who he is. Maybe he's gay, who knows, that's not important. What is important is that he be able to function in the world, and be able to support and protect himself. Some of those skills, are things a man needs to know. Basic things, every PERSON should be able to do.

If women and girls can be whoever they want, and labeling them is wrong, why is raising a boy a certain way "feminist," when you're empowering him to be who he is? Does it matter whether who he is feminine? No. No it doesn't, and Feminism doesn't inform raising boys.

Could certain things stand to be changed, in the way we raise boys, and what is expected of men? Sure. But now being a regular guy is odd, and if you don't raise your kids under the mantle of feminism something is wrong?

Horse SHIT.

If the desire for equality is real, then feminism is not what we need when raising our boys, because feminism doesn't exist. We should teach our kids to be good people, regardless of gender.

While we do that, lets rob them of the enjoyable parts of being a boy or girl. Lets make sure everyone is the same, and that there are no unique inherent traits to either sex, or reason to WANT to be masculine.

It's in the New York Times, for crying out loud.

I didn't read the article. Should I have named my son Sue!

That's just so you can read an article.

The idea of this, movement if you like, is already widespread. The author of this article is making the rounds so everyone can pat themselves on the back about how progressive they are.

Millenials who can't change a tire. It's already here.

Reading the NYT and expecting not to read annoying nonsense is like using binoculars to look at an eclipse and expecting not to get your eyes wrecked.

The title of the thread isn't "what do you think of the new york times."

If you've got something to say about the issue I'm trying to discuss, by all means.

God forbid we let kids be kids anymore. This ridiculous urge of the left to social engineer everyone into obedient little robots from birth is infuriating. Can't chance letting a future democrat voter get away!

quote:

Originally posted by joel9507:
Reading the NYT and expecting not to read annoying nonsense is like using binoculars to look at an eclipse and expecting not to get your eyes wrecked.

My cat is orange.

"Boys are particularly responsive to spending time with role models, even more than girls, research shows. There is growing evidence that boys raised in households without a father figure fare worse in behavior, academics and earnings."

Hard to argue with that. Boys and girls are different, but that doesn't mean I'm raising mine with different values. My sons and daughter are all expected to be respectful and nice to everyone. I don't know how that squares with feminism and really don't care. I have a Book that works for me and don't feel the need to supplement it.

Part of what I'm driving at, is they're trying to give Feminism sole credit it doesn't deserve. Feminism isn't the birth of the idea that all people have equal rights.

It's the birth of a number of ideas, and not all of them are good for boys, certainly not men.

Again, I think it's worth pointing out that for some decades, we've been telling girls all the things they can do like men, but without declaring them "masculinized," because we don't want to shame them for being girls.

But, we can raise Feminist sons, and I'm an ogre if I point out that is deeply misguided. Just even letting the word in bothers me, because it is not as wholesome as put forth, and I'm not sure that the people pushing it don't know that.

On the whole, it's just one more way to prep future generations for subjugation by the State, or by a Caliphate, whichever comes first while they're busy talking about their feelings.

Which brings me to another point. For a long time, part of growing up as a boy, was a lot of people telling you that you don't cry, etc. etc. There are indeed times not to cry, and we as men should be allowed to both have feelings, and know when it's time to put feelings aside. There are course corrections to raising functional men, that can be made without ever bringing feminism into it.

This boils down to gender roles, and call me puzzled when we can mix feminism into masculinity, but not the other way around.

What a bunch of gobbled y gook. My wife and I encourage equally the traits and characteristics that make a young person a great adult. I don't raise my sons to be bullies and don't raise my daughter to be a wilting flower either.

The article seems to ignore normal gender roles and tendencies.

I'm raising my boy to respect women and do, think, wear, and be whatever the hell he wants. He will also respect other people's choices and put bullies on notice that abusing his friends will no be tolerated.
If some egghead wants to ignorantly applaud him as a Feminist...shrug.


Bruce

They want us to believe that you can't truly respect women unless you're a total beta wussy. Just the ongoing emasculation of the American male. Personally I don't understand how a confident woman could respect such a "male". But the media is warping the message of what a strong woman should be, too.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ59:
What a bunch of gobbled y gook. My wife and I encourage equally the traits and characteristics that make a young person a great adult. I don't raise my sons to be bullies and don't raise my daughter to be a wilting flower either.

The article seems to ignore normal gender roles and tendencies.

A Silicon Valley "propeller head", (ie, a "high tech guru") once explained re men and women. "The hardware is different, the software is different; they both function in their own way, and when working together they can accomplish great things". There are normal, inborn, genetic differences, roles and tendencies. I would say nature intended it to be that way for a purpose.

quote:

Reading the NYT and expecting not to read annoying nonsense is like using binoculars to look at an eclipse and expecting not to get your eyes wrecked.

LOL, I was not going to click the link and get sucked into giving the Times my money when I got to this post^^. Well said.

Sorry, can't add to the conversation so good luck. My son will be swinging by tonight. He's a nurse in another state and I don't see him much. Good guy.

Last night, I ran into this cartoon on Facebook. I showed it to my wife and she was even wondering, WTH? Reading the comments to go with was enough to turn my stomach. Everyone was praising how wonderful this was and how they were going to use this guy's cartoons to educate their children. There were a few that questioned it, mainly females, and they were shouted down in typical fashion as being what's wrong with society these days. This one gal echoed my thoughts by questioning how they could have had a relationship, much less a "loving" marriage if the wife obviously treated him that way all the time. People responded that the wife was engrossed in her reading, it was important, and she had every right to tell him to shove off. Some even went so far as to say that's how a marriage is supposed to work; that you are supposed to get consent for every little action that you take. Wow. I'm sure glad I was raised in a different time. I fear what these pussies are going to do to society.

There was an interesting question posed by some of the free thinkers: what if the roles in the cartoon had been reversed?

If Feminism means treating women as equals and as human beings, then I am all for it. Not many could possibly object to that. That doesn't mean we have to pretend men and women are exactly the same as men, which to me seems to be patent nonsense.

Sometimes there might be situations where it is hard to tell if we are not being fair to women or that some social construct is genuinely related to real male/female differences, but I think those problems are fewer in number than some would have us believe.

Other, what I might call "add-ons" to feminism are silly. This includes, for example, things like not giving a boy a toy gun because it encourages violence. Give a child whatever they want to play with - boys, girls, guns, dolls, stuffed animals, whatever. To the extent that is part of someone's definition of feminism they are wrong about what feminism is.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
It's in the New York Times, for crying out loud.

I didn't read the article. Should I have named my son Sue!

According to Johnny Cash naming him Sue will make him quite the hard ass SOB.

quote:

Originally posted by Mboroman:
Last night, I ran into this cartoon on Facebook. I showed it to my wife and she was even wondering, WTH? Reading the comments to go with was enough to turn my stomach. Everyone was praising how wonderful this was and how they were going to use this guy's cartoons to educate their children. There were a few that questioned it, mainly females, and they were shouted down in typical fashion as being what's wrong with society these days. This one gal echoed my thoughts by questioning how they could have had a relationship, much less a "loving" marriage if the wife obviously treated him that way all the time. People responded that the wife was engrossed in her reading, it was important, and she had every right to tell him to shove off. Some even went so far as to say that's how a marriage is supposed to work; that you are supposed to get consent for every little action that you take. Wow. I'm sure glad I was raised in a different time. I fear what these pussies are going to do to society.

There was an interesting question posed by some of the free thinkers: what if the roles in the cartoon had been reversed?

I don't see anything wrong with the message in the cartoon, as long as it's not taken to extremes. But really, if my girlfriend doesn't want to be touched, for whatever reason, all she has to do is tell me "no" and that'll that. It wont make me angry, or worried she doesn't love me anymore, or make me think she's cheating, she's just not in the mood to be touched. It's likely she just farted, and in 20 minutes everything will be fine. I promise, teaching that it's okay to not want physical contact at all times with your significant other isn't some Marxist trick to bring down the Republic.

The article is deeply flawed.

"Let him cry" "Give him role models"

I have no problem with these sentiments. My problem is DOES THIS REALLY HAVE TO BE TAUGHT TO PARENTS?? Babies cry. And it takes a while for them to grow up, boy or girl. So one can expect some crying as they grow up. It would take a mentally handicapped or perverse person (neither of whom would be inclined to read the article) to know to allow a child to cry and when to wean them off it.

If you didn't know that kids need role models, you're not the type to be reading the article either. And I wonder about the people who read this and say, "By Jove, he's right!"

"Let him be himself" No. There is no "himself" in him yet. While they may have their individual peculiarities, the environment still has a component in affecting a person's identity.

Feminism, not unlike most of the progressive mantra is total and complete bullshit at this point. I have zero tolerance and/or acceptance of any of it. As Milo noted in one of his pieces, most woman don't even want to be called feminists any more because of how its been bastardized.

And as I've told a number of people rather bluntly and unapologetically over the years, when it comes to raising my son, those decisions are entirely mine and my wife's business and no one elses. Both current left and right ideologies intrude on that process and call it progress. It most assuredly is not.