I had a rental on my last business trip that had that bug. Pulled out of the driveway and the engine stopped. Got to the traffic lights and the engine stopped. Did a u- turn and took it back. Told them I wanted a real car. Took some doing but in an hour they had me a new car without that mechanical bug.

Too bad so done can reprogram their eproms to get rid of that.

Not only that but this feature has become standard in all but the lowest priced autos over the past 10 years. Some people just think everything is some big plot. Same complaining about CVTs.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Really? You all bash something that saves you money because you think it will wear out a starter? Do you think that all the engineers at the oems didn’t once consider this? That they just put out a new control system without even once asking “would this harm the starter?” Puhleez.

My F150 and highlander has this. I was not a fan at first, but got used to it and hit the button to override when in stop and go. The highlander is barely noticeable when it goes off.

Do these cars have to be put back in Park before they can be restarted? When my 2006 Mustang occasionally halts at a stoplight (not a planned action) I have to press the brake, put the car in Park, restart the engine, and put it back into gear. Meanwhile the car behind me is honking.

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by DaBigBR:
Between the half dozen or so gun and car forums I frequent, I've probably seen this same rant with all of the same responses two dozen times. What I have not seen even once is anybody who actually had a problem because of this feature. Not once.

Go visit some car forums where that make of car/truck has that feature. I’ve seen F-150’s and Escape’s have trouble with restarting. One even died in the middle of an intersection and would not restart.

Auto start/stop was not devised to increase the reliability of a car/truck. It is only installed to increase a car companies C.A.F.E. numbers.

As more and more cars/trucks enter service with that feature there will be more problems.

quote:

Do these cars have to be put back in Park before they can be restarted?

No. Taking your foot off the brake while the transmission is in drive (AFAIK it only works with automatics), or that plus giving it a little throttle, automatically restarts the engine. This sounds like a real nuisance in slow, creepy, "stop-and-go" traffic, like California's I-405 during rush hour (or almost any other time of day; there is a joke that "405" stands for "4 or 5 mph").

I plan on driving my 2009 car until it won't go any more. As long as the body structure doesn't rust out, I can keep it going almost indefinitely.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Bad for the starter and the engine. A good portion of engine wear occurs at startup.

That's only on cold starts.

Hey, if you want this feature in your car, go for it. I've been driving and working on cars since I was a teenager 40+ years ago, and it will put more wear and tear on an engine / starter / battery. If you think the car companies care enough to beef up parts that you will pay to have replaced vs. getting CAFE credits, you are delusional.

quote:

Originally posted by Scurvy:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
Bad for the starter and the engine. A good portion of engine wear occurs at startup.

That's only on cold starts.

You still get engine wear on hot starts, just not near as much as cold starts.

quote:

Originally posted by Nuclear:
Hey, if you want this feature in your car, go for it. I've been driving and working on cars since I was a teenager 40+ years ago, and it will put more wear and tear on an engine / starter / battery. If you think the car companies care enough to beef up parts that you will pay to have replaced vs. getting CAFE credits, you are delusional.

If you’ve been working on cars that long, then you’ll remember how car engines were fairly worn out at 100,000 miles. We used to tear them down, over bore the pistons, and install new rings. How often is that happening now? Essentially never. Every manufacturer makes 2-300,0000 mile engines now, with the occasional exception, like the mid-2000 era Honda Accord 4cyl that seems like it was engineered to burn oil prodigiously.

Perhaps lubrication tech has improved, or the manufacturers make better engines, or both. Either way, it goes against your premise that manufacturers are unconcerned with durability. The trend has been towards ever increasing durability. I would propose that start/stop will have no, or an insignificant, affect on engine life.

^^^ You forgot about increased starter and battery wear. Time will tell.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^ You forgot about increased starter and battery wear. Time will tell.

That seems like the big concern. However, golf carts have been doing this forever. My brother has an antique golf car from the early 70’s still on its original starter. They can engineer starters with the proper durability, and they will. Otherwise, the warranty claims would be costly.

Someone mentioned this in a post above and no-one seemed to notice. It is my understanding that these systems do not use the starter to restart the car. The car knows which cylinder is pressurized and use that cylinder to fire off the engine. It was explained to me that that is why our BMW from several years ago that had this system would only stay off for a certain amount of time before it would start back up even if you were still stopped at a light. It knew how long before the cylinder pressure bled off. At least this was my understanding at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

Do these cars have to be put back in Park before they can be restarted?

No. Taking your foot off the brake while the transmission is in drive (AFAIK it only works with automatics), or that plus giving it a little throttle, automatically restarts the engine. This sounds like a real nuisance in slow, creepy, "stop-and-go" traffic, like California's I-405 during rush hour (or almost any other time of day; there is a joke that "405" stands for "4 or 5 mph").

I plan on driving my 2009 car until it won't go any more. As long as the body structure doesn't rust out, I can keep it going almost indefinitely.

I'm pretty certain I had a car in Iceland with auto start and a manual transmission. Engine turns off if stopped, clutch and brake fully depressed. Either pedal goes up and the engine starts again. I'm also pretty certain I turned it off right away.

The auto start/stop is ok if there's a dedicated button to deactivate. I'll use it sometimes, other times not, mostly depending on how leisurely I'm driving or if I want the AC to blow cold the entire time. What I can't abide is when you have to go into the menu to turn it off.

My Land Rover does a weird thing where if you pull into a parking spot and put the car in park (and if auto s/s is active) the engine auto-stops and retracts the shift knob and shuts down the car. You have to manually start the car and put the car in gear to move again.

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter01:
It is my understanding that these systems do not use the starter to restart the car. The car knows which cylinder is pressurized and use that cylinder to fire off the engine. It was explained to me that that is why our BMW from several years ago that had this system would only stay off for a certain amount of time before it would start back up even if you were still stopped at a light. It knew how long before the cylinder pressure bled off.

I have a difficult time understanding how that could work. Even in an 8-cyl engine only 4 are on the power cycle and presumably they have been engineered to provide fairly even power pulses, or about every 90°. A cylinder can be "under pressure" before reaching TDC -- wouldn't firing a stopped engine in that condition try to make it run backward?

flashguy

quote:

Originally posted by straightshooter01:
Someone mentioned this in a post above and no-one seemed to notice. It is my understanding that these systems do not use the starter to restart the car. The car knows which cylinder is pressurized and use that cylinder to fire off the engine. It was explained to me that that is why our BMW from several years ago that had this system would only stay off for a certain amount of time before it would start back up even if you were still stopped at a light. It knew how long before the cylinder pressure bled off. At least this was my understanding at the time.

It is actually a little bit of this, and on many such as GM, the alternator/generator "restarts" the engine using a Belt Alternator hybrid System (BAS). It is actually the alternator/generator that cranks the motor for the restart along with precise ignition controls that fire the engine almost immediately, and will only use the starter if engine RPMs are too low.

The computer is in control even when you turn the key on many cars. Even if I don't keep the key turned to the crank position until the engine starts on my 2012 Silverado, the starter keeps cranking until the engine starts unless there is a problem like the fuel is low, then it lets it fire and die to make me check the gauges.

I first experienced this on a Ford F150 rental (2018 or 2019). Base engine, very noticeable. On the 2020 Navigator you hear the restart but don't feel it much.

I share the concern raised earlier in the thread about turbos and oil temperature. Seems to me a good reason to turn the system off.

Thankfully, on the Navigator, the auto start/stop switch is right next to the parking brake release.

Just before we drove away in our then-new M-B E-Class station wagon, I turned it off.

We STILL manage to get a tad over 50 mpg on a run - not that we're 'running' anywhere these days..........

I thought starting your car was the harder on it than running it, I heard this is a young man. Wives tale?
I had a Ford raptor for a while, a very unfortunate short while, and I hated the feature. Had to turn that bad boy off.

Was sitting at a light with the windows down & radio off this past weekend. When the light changed, half the cars started, I thought, wtf?