It is a Beatles v Stones debate..... but on 4 wheels I had the most fun in my civic w/ a stick. Reality is I’d no more tell you what to drive than who to marry. And “No”, comparing an Avalon to an Accord isn’t valid.

Make sure to do some research - we had a 2009 Civic 2 door and the engine went bade at ~60k. Learned it was a common problem (local dealer actual kept 2 short blocks in stock at that time). We had lots of little nagging things and actually, of all our cars, we had more maintenance on that car than any other. Here are some of the items:

> Frequent problems with airbags - sensor said airbags off. Had to be reset. ($$$ every time)
> Brake Light in the back window went out. That was like 450 (I didn't have the time to fix it)
> window shades lasted only a few months (google and you'll see it a common problem for the period).
> and then there was the paint problem. Paint faded badly and Honda yet Honda said ours was not one of the affected calls so they wouldn't cover under their recall.

When it was time to replace, my wife refused to consider another Honda. (Shocker because she loved driving that car.)

That said, I think my daughter had a 2009 Civic Si and had no problems except the paint. She sold it before the paint got real bad.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:

quote:

it does not like the wind, (buffets a bit more than I like) but at 34mph winter and 36 mph in the summer, no complaints,

I need a vehicle that will go faster than that.

lol,

typo on my part

quote:

Originally posted by SevenPlusOne:
Test drive a Mazda 3.

Yup. Much better handling and ride.

I have owned seven Honda Accords. I have been happy with them. Only a little more expensive than Civic and comparable gas mileage.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ZSMICHAEL,

I'm a big Toyota/Subuaru guy. If you don't mind a fairly unexciting car, I'd say new Corolla SE Manual. If you want a really classy interior and a much more engaging experience, Mazda3 all day and twice on Sunday.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
The Corolla has a timing chain, the Civic has a belt. That's why I buy Toyota instead of Honda. When you compare the Camry to the Corolla, IMHO the Camry might be a better buy because for just a few more dollars you get a bigger car which means more comfort. That might not be a big deal if you are only using it as a work car but take a long trip in the Corolla with another person and you just might wish you had a little more room. I own a Corolla and it's a GREAT car but my next car purchase will be a Camry simply because it's bigger.

Civic has been using timing chain since 2006.

My bad. When I was looking at new cars I looked at the Civic but was told by the dealer that they were equipped with belts. Thanks for the info. When I replace my Corolla, I'll look at the Civic as well.

Timing chains better than timing belts?

I will have to look into an Accord too. Never driven one but I suspect it will be along the same size as a Camry, give or take.

quote:

Originally posted by Bulldog7972:
The Corolla has a timing chain, the Civic has a belt. That's why I buy Toyota instead of Honda.

Your info is way out of date. Honda Civics have had a timing chain since the 2006 model forward.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Timing chains better than timing belts?

Belts have to be replaced at a certain point. Chains you never have to touch for the life of the car.

I've had Civics, Accords, and Corollas. All good cars.

I have a Mazda 6 now, and it is as reliable as any of the Toyotas and Hondas I have had.

Of the bunch, Toyotas are the most boring. No matter what Toyota does, they are pretty generic.

Of your picks, I'd get a Civic. But I'd really get a Mazda 3.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
Timing chains better than timing belts?

I will have to look into an Accord too. Never driven one but I suspect it will be along the same size as a Camry, give or take.

absolutely, timing belts have to be changed at a certain mileage 60k/80k etc. depending on which engine. It's $1k +/- to change them by the time you replace the might as well change while it's apart parts. If you don't change them and it breaks some motors will destroy themselves with the valves hitting the pistons.

Timing chains generally last 150k +/- miles and should be changed at that point, but most people don't and they keep chugging along generally.

We went through this last year when looking for a car for my daughter. The new Civics are good cars, but yes some reliability questions have come up in last few years. We cross shopped with the Mini (we have a 2016 Mini JCW - little BMW), Corolla, Mazda and VW...though at the time the new Mazda 3 was not yet launched. Mazda makes a nice car.

We ended up with the VW GTI because you could pick up a new one at the time (rabbit) for $24K, which was basically where these other cars were or similar - and get a sports car, DSG, etc. Also got a longer mfg warranty for free (6 year 72K), a program they no longer do.

Reality is there is very little separating the quality car brands and becomes what you like and what you think is the best value. Good luck, really do not think you can make a mistake.

I sat in a new Civic, but it seemed cramped to me. OTOH I bought the new model Accord in 2018; I love love love driving it, more than any car I’ve owned except the S2000 and my old 1970 BMW 2002; and the BMW is frankly nostalgia. I’m considering selling my S2000 because I rarely drive it any more. The Accord feels roomy, open and airy, handles way better than a family sedan should, and has plenty of power. Mine has the 2.0 turbo with 10-speed auto transmission; drives much differently from the 1.5 with CVT. BUT: 1) over $30,000 new; 2) gas mileage generally high twenties.

Accords 2018 and newer have a timing chain in both engine models.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I sat in a new Civic, but it seemed cramped to me. OTOH I bought the new model Accord in 2018; I love love love driving it, more than any car I’ve owned except the S2000 and my old 1970 BMW 2002; and the BMW is frankly nostalgia. I’m considering selling my S2000 because I rarely drive it any more. The Accord feels roomy, open and airy, handles way better than a family sedan should, and has plenty of power. Mine has the 2.0 turbo with 10-speed auto transmission; drives much differently from the 1.5 with CVT. BUT: 1) over $30,000 new; 2) gas mileage generally high twenties.

Accords 2018 and newer have a timing chain in both engine models.

the 2018 Civic I test drove (new) was larger than the 2015 SE I bought, and yet more cramped on the inside,

basically the same car, option wise, but the new car was as large, if not larger than my wifes old Camry (1997) but like I said, felt tighter inside,

nice car tho,, just liked the '15 better

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
My 2003 has treated me well but does have 201k miles.

Was looking at a used model 2016 or later. Would also consider the Corolla.

Also wouldn't be against the Accord or Camry though those are larger vehicles and I'm not sure if I have a need for that or would have a need for that since we have a Highlander as a family vehicle.

Not interested in any other suggestions besides what’s above.

Now I sit and wait for suggestions not listed above...

I'm sorry, I missed it, what was the question?

I'd get the Mazda, then a Honda, and lastly the Toyota, and I like all three.

Currently own a 2000 Toyota with almost 300k miles, runs great.

I've also put 160k miles on a Civic, and my mother is on her third excellent Mazda in many years.

All good. But the Toyotas are the most plain and boring to see and drive.

quote:

Originally posted by sjtill:
I sat in a new Civic, but it seemed cramped to me. OTOH I bought the new model Accord in 2018; I love love love driving it, more than any car I’ve owned except the S2000 and my old 1970 BMW 2002; and the BMW is frankly nostalgia. I’m considering selling my S2000 because I rarely drive it any more. The Accord feels roomy, open and airy, handles way better than a family sedan should, and has plenty of power. Mine has the 2.0 turbo with 10-speed auto transmission; drives much differently from the 1.5 with CVT. BUT: 1) over $30,000 new; 2) gas mileage generally high twenties.

Accords 2018 and newer have a timing chain in both engine models.

To put this in perspective, I still drive (and love) my 2007 Accord. The interior dimensions of the current Civic are very nearly identical. I've been thinking about potential replacements and the current Accord almost seems too big.

Every model seems to creep upward in size over time.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:

quote:

Originally posted by SevenPlusOne:
Test drive a Mazda 3.

Yup. Much better handling and ride.

Mazda's also don't have a CVT.

quote:

Originally posted by Edmond:
My 2003 has treated me well but does have 201k miles.

Was looking at a used model 2016 or later. Would also consider the Corolla.

Also wouldn't be against the Accord or Camry though those are larger vehicles and I'm not sure if I have a need for that or would have a need for that since we have a Highlander as a family vehicle.

Not interested in any other suggestions besides what’s above.

Just a guess, but he’s looking for experiences with those vehicles. He’s not interested in Mazda or VW or....