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Semper Fi - 1775 |
Recording is a "no no" in MN. Minnesota is also an "at will" state which means I can pretty much fire him for whatever reason I want ... the worst that can happen is we'll have to pay unemployment for a while. ___________________________ All it takes...is all you got. ____________________________ For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
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Chip away the stone |
I appreciate you trying to spell your expectations out clearly and giving him a chance to change his ways, but I think he will only be offended and maddened by your proposed statement. I can't imagine him having a "he's right, I'm wrong" realization as he will be too emotional about your statement. Maybe 10 years from now he'll feel that way, but not now. I think simply too many flaws, serious flaws, have come to light for him to remain in that position. IMO, the statement should simply be along the lines of, "we're sorry, but we've decided to let you go." Don't give any reasons. If you want to give a longer severance to make yourself feel a little better about it, so be it. | |||
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always with a hat or sunscreen |
I'm sorry but you're back peddling trying to be a nice guy and salvage this piece of work you previously hired. WHY? Cut your loss and cut him loose. You don't need to be spending more time on him after what you've cited in this thread about his ignoring repeated direction from you and the owner. If nothing else keeping him around a minute longer risks damaging the subordinate staff which you can ill afford. CUT THIS FOOL LOOSE NOW! And yes it wouldn't hurt for the owner to be present when you drop the hammer. I'd also be sneaky and have a voice recorder hidden and active. Doom on this POS! ADDENDUM: Missed your earlier statement about your State laws which make recording a foul... so be it. And as an "at will" or "right to work" (like South Dakota) State having a witness isn't necessary or worth the effort either. Just tell him it hasn't worked out and his services are no longer needed. Don't engage in any conversation. Just show him the door or have him escorted out.  Certifiable member of the gun toting, septuagenarian, bucket list workin', crazed retiree, bald is beautiful club! USN (RET), COTEP #192 | |||
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| Big Stack |
Does he have anything like a contract / employment agreement?
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| Member |
KISS. Document, document, document. Just like his attorney, if he gets one, will do. No such thing as a "good guy" in business. Best, *************************** Knowing more by accident than on purpose. | |||
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| Chip away the stone |
FWIW, I'm in an "at will" state also, and when I was in management at a mid sized, family-run business, I was always told by HR to not give any reasons to the employee for the termination. I don't know why exactly that was, probably partly because you're giving them potential ammo to used when applying for unemployment, but also maybe because it could prolong the termination meeting with them arguing you're every reason. Keep it simple and brief. | |||
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Hop head  |
start with this, use it as a documented meeting, have at least one witness, but don't gang up on him keep the conversation pleasant and to the point know how to change the conversation if he gets ugly, as in calm him down without loosing your cool, set goals, and timelines, (short term and long term) follow up in a timely manner, like week end, have another meeting to cover the goals with a witness, and discuss progress and opportunities, if the opportunities persist, explain to him that this is a final meeting on the matter, and document that, fire at will the next week, seems dragged out, but since he is a corporate type weinie, that is what he will understand, be sure to document , and have the witness document, everything, clear concise notes, don't hesitate to call any bluff he makes, and if he gets too heated, hand him a note pad and suggest he write his resignation now, and remind him of the documented meetings in the past, have another associate, or you, draw up the cost analysis of the changes he made, include cost of the new produce, shrink (product tossed) and any other losses including time (labor) used to correct errors, order new product, shrink it out etc, would be hard to prove cost of business lost by the changes , https://chandlersfirearms.com/chesterfield-armament/ | |||
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| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
If employment is "at will" it can be ended at any time without a reason, so it's best not to give one and pay the unemployment. Firing for cause (meaning violating an employment rule), depending on the state, may require proof that the rule was broken, with a proper investigation and evidence found. Being fired for cause generally allows unemployment to be denied. Incompetence and poor workmanship generally don't fall under "causes". | |||
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| Member |
The only option you're giving yourself is the option to do in two weeks what you should do tomorrow. He's already disobeyed instructions from ownership. He's costing the business money through fis failure to follow instructions. He's alienating staff and they will leave. Think some of them aren't already planning? Think again. I can see maybe keeping him in while you find a replacement but how long do you draw that out? It seems that he views himself as captain of the ship when he isn't. The ship is foundering. Don't let it sink in the name of having options. | |||
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| Member |
And think of all the wonderful things, in the meantime, that he can do for the company. And that reflects on you. *************************** Knowing more by accident than on purpose. | |||
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semi-reformed sailor |
Cut him loose tonight. "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein “You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020 “A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker | |||
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| Semper Fi - 1775 |
<UPDATE> Guys, I know from a business point-of-view "why" to let him go; this is not my first firing. But...what I am struggling with a bit...a lot....is that part of me feels I owe it to him to chew his ass and point blank tell him his job is in jeopardy. I don't take lightly the fact that the man left another $70k job to come work with us...not my problem, I know. But it's how I'm wired...it's still something I think about. ___________________________ All it takes...is all you got. ____________________________ For those who have fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ | |||
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| I've always been Crazy! kept me from goin Insane! |
Big mistake keeping him around, in my book. Gives him time to exact revenge on you and your business. What is the potential for him to "talk" to your customers? To poison your staff or run them off? Cut your losses while your ahead and move forward. -------------------------------------------------------------- Harrison Shooter Supply FFL 07 SOT I am the member formerly known as "Southernmaninla". | |||
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| Member |
You can't make a good deal with a bad person. Get rid of him and replace him with someone who will follow the recipe's and respect their staff.....he's a toxic person and no plan B, if you give him plan B this will just drag on another few weeks, losing more customers and probably will lose a few GOOD employees, get rid and replace. This guy will screw you over seven ways till Sunday if you let him stay. | |||
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| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
Is there a number of weeks in your state that they have to work to in order to be eligible for unemployment? I believe there is in NC. That could be a hard-line to keep in mind? Or not. Just a suggestion. Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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Member |
You're a very good man Ronin. Your heart is in the right place, but is your head? You know what the solution is. No need to lament it or prolong it. And no need to regret it either. This person didn't deliver. Period. Just get it done and move on to hopefully your ultimate solution. Good luck. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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Member |
I don't think that you have any reasonable course of action without pain for both of you. I have experienced the performance decline keeping a non-performer around, hoping for a turn-around. A reassignment was made in once case, and the lack of performance just moved to the new job. I've also experienced a near-mass exodus of a development team when a new manager came in and made changes without wise consideration. Both the manager and the six associates went to HR with complaints about each other, and we ended up keeping the six associates who did the actual work. Much better now, with a new manager who has turned the team around. Thanks for letting us share in your life experiences. We are all stronger when we learn from each other. ------- Trying to simplify my life... | |||
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| Member |
The new chef needs to learn a life lesson. Pay attention to what he is asked to do, not just do things "his way". Judging by the way he treats the other kitchen staff, I doubt that this new guy will ever work out. I suggest letting him go asap, but explain to him why. 1. Not doing what he was asked to do. 2. Not working well with others. -c1steve | |||
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| Crusty old curmudgeon  |
As important as your employees are to your business, it's the customers that are the foundation to it. Who knows how many you have lost because of his changing ingredients on the existing menu. Lost customers are extremely hard to bring back. Is the slight possible gain by being a nice guy worth the risk of losing more customers to a poisonous personality that you, yourself stated has a huge ego. Taking him to the carpet is too risky to take a chance in his changing his ways. Bring him into the office when he shows up and tell him that you're sorry it didn't work out and wish him luck in the future and tell him he's fired. Period! The restaurant business is too fickle to take unnecessary risks. Jim ________________________ "If you can't be a good example, then you'll have to be a horrible warning" -Catherine Aird | |||
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Not really from Vienna |
This is what to do. Don't let this jackass further poison your business. | |||
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