quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by jsbcody:
Most departments are using "tactical urban rounds" for 556 rifles ....

You’ve piqued my interest with several questions.
What do you mean by “most departments”? In only a certain area that you’re familiar with, or across the country? If the latter, how do you know that? Is there centrally-available information about that sort of thing?

By “tactical urban” are you referring to Hornady’s line of urban TAP?

If so, now I’m curious about the armor you mentioned. The most common (I believe) soft body armor is level IIIA; are you saying that the ammunition you mentioned won’t penetrate that? (I found one Internet post that claimed the Hornady 55 grain Urban TAP was effective against soft armor.)

Or are you truly referring to level III armor? Level III armor is rated by the NIJ to stop 223 Remington lead core ammunition, and that would include many types of bullets that are intended to expand in flesh, and not only something like the Urban TAP loads that are specifically intended for less penetration. According to the Internet, FMJ M193 ammunition will also defeat (some? all?) level III hard plates, but although it also has a lead core its velocity and FMJ construction give it more penetrating power than most lead core bullets.

I’m also curious why anyone would be specifically concerned about penetrating level III armor. It’s a hard plate style, and how much more common is it than level IV? When I first decided to purchase hard armor, I didn’t even stop to think about anything other than level IV, but now I see that various manufacturers offer something labeled as III+, which is, I believe, specifically intended to be effective against all 223/5.56 loads, but not the really powerful AP stuff.

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Originally posted by 357fuzz:
I don’t think the most common body armor is IIIA.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
I don’t think the most common body armor is IIIA.

That’s good to know about a different agency than I’m familiar with.
That would be the obvious reason why the one video I watched assumed that most common armor was rated at level II, and that’s what the agency in question was concerned about. There are of course significant reasons why those who must put up with the daily inconvenience and discomfort of armor for hours at a time would choose a level of protection that wouldn’t matter to a BG going out for a specific short term event.

In any case, if a cartridge load cannot defeat level II, not to mention what’s behind it, it certainly cannot be expected to neutralize someone wearing IIIA.

And I am now even more curious about my questions concerning the ability to defeat level III armor.